Final velocities of two objects in a 2D elastic collision

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves an elastic collision between an atomic nucleus of mass m and a target particle of mass 3.0m, with the nucleus initially traveling at speed v and the target particle at rest. The nucleus is scattered at an angle of 45 degrees after the collision, and the task is to determine the final speeds of both particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss using conservation of momentum and kinetic energy equations to find the final velocities. There is an exploration of breaking down the velocities into components and using trigonometric identities. Some participants question the assumption regarding the angles of the final velocities.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, attempting to manipulate the equations and clarify the relationships between the variables. There is recognition of potential typographical errors and a suggestion to consider the energy equation alongside the momentum equations. Multiple interpretations of the problem setup are being explored.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of the challenge posed by having three unknowns in the equations, with some participants suggesting that one variable can be treated as given. The discussion also highlights the importance of correctly applying the conservation laws in the context of differing masses.

Protium_H1
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Homework Statement



An atomic nucleous of mass m traveling with speed v collides elastically with a target particle of mass 3.0m (initially at rest) and is scattered at 45o
(a). What are the final speeds of the two particles?
Advice: eliminate the target particle's recoil angle by manipulating the equation of momentum conservation so that can use the identity sin2Φ + cos2Φ = 1

Variables (that I used):

v = speed of the atom before the collision (along the x-axis, i.e. parallel to the x-axis)
u1 = final velocity of the atom after the collision (goes above the x-axis by 45o)
u2 = final velocity of the target particle after the collision (goes below the x-axis by Φ)

Homework Equations


[/B]
Conservation of Momentum:
m1v1 + m2v2 = m1u1 m2u2

The Attempt at a Solution


[/B]
I used the conservation of momentum formula and simplified it as follows:

m1v1 + m2v2 = m1u1 + m2u2
mv = mu1 + 3.0mu2
mv = m(u1 + 3.0u2)
v = u1 + 3.0u2
I broke u1 and u2 into component forms:

x-direction:
v = u1cos(45o) + 3.0u2cosΦ
y-direction:
0 = u1sin(45o) - 3.0u2sinΦ
This is where I get stuck, I even tried to use the conservation of kinetic energy,

v2 = u12 + 3.0u22
To find for the unknowns, but for some reason, the equations just all cancel out or become impossible to solve when I tried to substitute and find the final velocities, and for some reason, I can't get the expression sin2Φ + cos2Φ = 1 as the Advice recommended me to do. I asked my Prof. and he said that I had to break the final velocities into its component forms to get that trig. identity before rushing to a meeting.

Note:

Please correct me if I'm wrong but, I think that the angle between these two final velocities (45o + Φ) = 90o, since the conservation of kinetic energy equation: v2 = u12 + 3.0u22, looks like Pythagoras Theorem, where v is the hypotenuse, and all these 3 velocities form a right triangle.

 
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Welcome to PF, Protium_H1.

Protium_H1 said:
x-direction:
v = u1cos(45o) + 3.0u2cosΦ
y-direction:
0 = u1sin(45o) - 3.0u2sinΦ
This is where I get stuck, I even tried to use the conservation of kinetic energy,

v2 = u12 + 3.0u22
To make use of the trig identity, solve the x-momentum equation for 3.0u2cosΦ and solve the y-momentum equation for 3.0u2sinΦ. Can you then see how to proceed?

Note:

Please correct me if I'm wrong but, I think that the angle between these two final velocities (45o + Φ) = 90o
This would be true if the two masses were equal. It is not true in this problem.
 
TSny said:
Welcome to PF, Protium_H1.To make use of the trig identity, solve the x-momentum equation for 3.0u2cosΦ and solve the y-momentum equation for 3.0u2sinΦ. Can you then see how to proceed?

This would be true if the two masses were equal. It is not true in this problem.
TSny said:
Welcome to PF, Protium_H1.To make use of the trig identity, solve the x-momentum equation for 3.0u2cosΦ and solve the y-momentum equation for 3.0u2sinΦ. Can you then see how to proceed?

This would be true if the two masses were equal. It is not true in this problem.

Would I have to add these two equations up and square them?

[3.0u2cosΦ]2 = [v - u2cos(45o)]2
[3.0u2sinΦ]2 = [u1sin(45o)]2

then,

[3.0u2sinΦ]2 + [3.0u2cosΦ]2 = [u1sin(45o)]2 + [v - u2cos(45o)]2
9.0u22[cos2Φ + sin2Φ] = [u1sin(45o)]2 + [v - u2cos(45o)]2
9.0u22 = [u1sin(45o)]2 + [v - u2cos(45o)]2
but I still have 3 unknowns in this equation, is there a way to cancel 2 of them?
 
Protium_H1 said:
Would I have to add these two equations up and square them?

[3.0u2cosΦ]2 = [v - u2cos(45o)]2
[3.0u2sinΦ]2 = [u1sin(45o)]2
Yes. But you have a typographical error in the subscript on the right side of the first equation.

but I still have 3 unknowns in this equation, is there a way to cancel 2 of them?
You have only two unknowns since you can consider v as given.
Don't forget the energy equation.
 

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