Find A: 3-Digit Number from Abc = a + b + c

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Albert1
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a 3-digit number \( A \) such that \( A = abc = a! + b! + c! \), where \( a \), \( b \), and \( c \) are digits. Participants explore the properties of such numbers, known as factorions, and the constraints involved in identifying them.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants clarify whether \( a \), \( b \), and \( c \) are digits or positive integers, with a focus on the digit constraint \( a, b, c \subset \{0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9\} \) and \( a \neq 0 \).
  • One participant notes that there are only finitely many numbers that can be expressed as the sum of the factorial of their digits, mentioning the number 145 as a known example.
  • Another participant suggests that finding the next term in the sequence of such numbers is an exercise, hinting that it is not too large.
  • There is a reference to the term "factorions" and a specific sequence identifier (A014080) related to these numbers.
  • Participants discuss whether the known numbers with this property are proven or just the only known integers, with some asserting that they are indeed proved.
  • One participant provides a programmatic approach to finding these numbers, indicating that no four-digit factorions exist and that 40585 is the only five-digit number.
  • A mathematical argument is presented regarding the upper and lower bounds for \( n \)-digit factorions, suggesting that the largest factorion cannot exceed seven digits.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the completeness of known factorions and the methods for proving their finiteness. While some assert that the known numbers are proven, others question the extent of this proof.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the digits and the definitions of factorions. The discussion also includes unresolved mathematical steps related to the bounds of \( n \)-digit factorions.

Albert1
Messages
1,221
Reaction score
0
A=abc=a!+b!+c!

here A is a 3-digit number

find A
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
Re: abc=a!+b!+c!

Are a, b, and c digits or are they positive integers?
 
Re: abc=a!+b!+c!

eddybob123 said:
Are a, b, and c digits or are they positive integers?

A=100a+10b+c=a!+b!+c!

a,b,c $ \subset$ { 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 }

and a$\neq 0$

find A
 
Re: abc=a!+b!+c!

145 = 1! + 4! + 5!
reason

none of abc can be > 5 as 6! = 720 and 7! = 5040 > 1000

one of them that is b or c= 5 ( a cannot be 5 as 5! = 120 and 5! + 4! + 3! < 200)

so a = 1, b= 5, c = ? or a = 1, b = ? , c = 5 ( it has to be < 5)

if a = 1 , b = 5 we get 1 + 120 + c ! > 150 and < 160

so c! > 29 so there is no c

if a = 1, c = 5 we get 1 + 120 + b! = 105 + 10 b

so b = 4
 
Re: abc=a!+b!+c!

This is a very nice problem, Albert.

Actually, there are only finitely many numbers which are sum of the factorial of their own digits. (Prove why)

The number 145 is the penultimate term of the sequence of such numbers. If you don't mind, Albert, I give it as an exercise to find out the next term (via-computer approaches are welcome).;)

Balarka
.
 
Re: abc=a!+b!+c!

mathbalarka said:
This is a very nice problem, Albert.

Actually, there are only finitely many numbers which are sum of the factorial of their own digits. (Prove why)

The number 145 is the penultimate term of the sequence of such numbers. If you don't mind, Albert, I give it as an exercise to find out the next term (via-computer approaches are welcome).;)

Balarka
.
Here A is 3- digit number , please tell me the numbers of digits you want me to find for the next term
 
Re: abc=a!+b!+c!

Albert said:
Here A is 3- digit number , please tell me the numbers of digits you want me to find for the next term

I'd prefer not telling that, that'd make things easier.

A hint may suffice, for the sake of keeping this problem fair enough :

The next number is not too large.
 
Re: abc=a!+b!+c!

mathbalarka said:
I'd prefer not telling that, that'd make things easier.

A hint may suffice, for the sake of keeping this problem fair enough :

The next number is not too large.

The next one is

$$40585 = 4!+0!+5!+8!+5!$$
 
Re: abc=a!+b!+c!

Yes! nice, Zaid!

These are called factorions base 10. See, A014080.

Balarka
.
 
  • #10
Re: abc=a!+b!+c!

mathbalarka said:
Yes! nice, Zaid!

These are called factorions base 10. See, A014080.

Balarka
.

Hey Balarka , according to the link you provided there are only 4 numbers with this property , so is this proved or they are the only known integers .
 
  • #11
Re: abc=a!+b!+c!

ZaidAlyafey said:
Hey Balarka , according to the link you provided there are only 4 numbers with this property , so is this proved or they are the only known integers .

They are proved, yes. If you look carefully a couple of posts back you'll see that I also asked for a proof of this fact.
 
  • #12
Re: abc=a!+b!+c!

mathbalarka said:
They are proved, yes. If you look carefully a couple of posts back you'll see that I also asked for a proof of this fact.

ans :1, 2, 145, 40585
I wrote a program (using Excel) and found no answer for 4 digits number
and the only five digits number is 40585
the first person proved this (if using computer not allowed) must be very smart :)
 
  • #13
Re: abc=a!+b!+c!

Proving finiteness of the sequence is not hard. Note that any n-digit factorion has an upper bound $$n 9!$$ and a lower one $$10^{(n-1)}$$. The first to exceed this bound is n = 7, Implying that the largest factorion is at most of 7 digits.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
1K