Find Basis for Ker (T) with S = {1, 0, 1, 0}

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    Basis Kernel
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a basis for the kernel of a linear transformation T defined from R^4 to R^4, specifically examining whether a given set of vectors S can be included in that basis. The conversation touches on concepts of linear independence and the properties of vector spaces.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a basis 'B' for Ker(T) and questions whether it is possible to have a basis that includes the set S, given that S and B are linearly independent.
  • Another participant challenges the premise by stating that the vectors in S are not in the kernel of T, thus cannot be part of any basis for that kernel.
  • A later reply expresses agreement with the challenge, indicating that the original understanding was correct.
  • Another participant provides a general note about interpreting problems that request finding a basis including specific vectors, emphasizing the assumption that those vectors are in the vector space and independent.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the vectors in S cannot be part of a basis for Ker(T) since they are not in the kernel. However, there is a lack of consensus on the implications of the linear independence of S and B.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the importance of verifying whether proposed vectors belong to the kernel of a transformation before considering them for a basis. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the properties of the transformation T and the nature of the kernel.

Luke1294
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Find a basis for Ker T that contains S = [tex]\begin{pmatrix}<br /> 1\\<br /> 0\\<br /> 1\\<br /> 0\\<br /> \end{pmatrix}[/tex], [tex]\begin{pmatrix}<br /> 0\\<br /> 1\\<br /> 0\\<br /> 2\\<br /> \end{pmatrix}[/tex] where [tex]T : R^4 -> R^4[/tex] is defined by

[tex]T\begin{pmatrix}<br /> 1\\<br /> b\\<br /> c\\<br /> d\\<br /> \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix}<br /> a - b - c\\<br /> a - 2b + c\\<br /> 0\\<br /> 0\\<br /> \end{pmatrix}[/tex].

Well, I have found a basis 'B' for Ker (T) to be B ={[tex]\begin{pmatrix}<br /> 3\\<br /> 2\\<br /> 1\\<br /> 0\\<br /> \end{pmatrix}[/tex], [tex]\begin{pmatrix}<br /> 0\\<br /> 0\\<br /> 0\\<br /> 1\\<br /> \end{pmatrix}[/tex]}.

I noticed that the two sets of vectors S and B are linearly independent of one another. Does this mean that there is no basis for Ker(T) that contains S, as a basis must be a minimal spanning set? Or have I gone astray somewhere?
 
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Luke1294 said:
Find a basis for Ker T that contains S = [tex]\begin{pmatrix}<br /> 1\\<br /> 0\\<br /> 1\\<br /> 0\\<br /> \end{pmatrix}[/tex], [tex]\begin{pmatrix}<br /> 0\\<br /> 1\\<br /> 0\\<br /> 2\\<br /> \end{pmatrix}[/tex] where [tex]T : R^4 -> R^4[/tex] is defined by

[tex]T\begin{pmatrix}<br /> 1\\<br /> b\\<br /> c\\<br /> d\\<br /> \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix}<br /> a - b - c\\<br /> a - 2b + c\\<br /> 0\\<br /> 0\\<br /> \end{pmatrix}[/tex].

Well, I have found a basis 'B' for Ker (T) to be B ={[tex]\begin{pmatrix}<br /> 3\\<br /> 2\\<br /> 1\\<br /> 0\\<br /> \end{pmatrix}[/tex], [tex]\begin{pmatrix}<br /> 0\\<br /> 0\\<br /> 0\\<br /> 1\\<br /> \end{pmatrix}[/tex]}.

I noticed that the two sets of vectors S and B are linearly independent of one another. Does this mean that there is no basis for Ker(T) that contains S, as a basis must be a minimal spanning set? Or have I gone astray somewhere?
Perhaps you should reread the problem. "Find a basis for the kernel of T that includes <1, 0, 1, 0> and <0, 1, 0, 2>" makes no sense as it is easy to see that those two vectors are NOT in the kernel of T and so cannot be in any basis for that kernel.
 
Alright, that is what I had thought but just wanted to verify it with someone. Thank you very much!
 
For future reference: A problem that says "Find a basis for vector space V that include vectors v1 and v2" , assuming v1 and v2 are in V and are independent, means that you are to find a basis that includes those two vectors and possibly more.
 
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