Find Counterexample for Expression about Limit of Composition Function

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions under which the limit of a composition of functions holds, specifically examining the statement involving limits of functions defined on open sets in real spaces. Participants are exploring the implications of continuity and the definitions of domains and ranges in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a statement about limits of composition functions and asks for a counterexample if the statement is false.
  • Several participants inquire about the domains and ranges of the function g(x), indicating a need for clarity on the definitions involved.
  • Another participant suggests that the original statement may contain a typo regarding the domain of function f, questioning whether it should be defined in terms of U \ L.
  • A participant argues that continuity is essential for the limit of the composition to hold, providing an example of a discontinuous function and discussing how limits can yield different values depending on the approach to a point.
  • One participant proposes a modified version of the original statement that includes continuity conditions and clarifies the domains involved, suggesting that the original formulation may not be sufficient.
  • There is a mention of the necessity for point a to not be an isolated point in the open set, with a request for clarification on this aspect.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the original statement regarding limits of composition functions, with no consensus reached on the necessary conditions for the statement to hold true. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of continuity and the definitions of the functions involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential ambiguities in the definitions of domains and ranges, as well as the necessity of continuity for the limit of the composition to be evaluated correctly. There are unresolved questions about the implications of removing points from the domain of the functions.

i_a_n
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Suppose that $U$ is open in $\mathbb{R}^{m}$, that $L\in U$ and that $h:U\setminus \left \{ L \right \}\rightarrow \mathbb{R}^{p}$ for some $p\in N$. If $L=\lim_{x\rightarrow a}g(x)$ and $M=\lim_{y\rightarrow L}h(y)$. Then
$\lim_{x\rightarrow a}(h\circ g)(x)=M$.

(Someone told me that this statement is false and should replace "$U\setminus \left \{ L \right \}$" with "$U$", and “$M=\lim_{y\rightarrow L}h(y)$. Then”
with “$h$ is continuous at $L$, then”.)So can you give me a counterexample of the original statement? Thanks.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
What is the domain and range of g(x)?
 
jakncoke said:
What is the domain and range of g(x)?

Let $a\in \mathbb{R}^{n}$, let $V$ be an open set which contains $a$, and suppose that $g: \ V\setminus a\rightarrow \mathbb{R}^{m}$.
 
Last edited:
ianchenmu said:
Let $a\in \mathbb{R}^{n}$, let $V$ be an open set which contains $a$, and suppose that $f: \ V\setminus a\rightarrow \mathbb{R}^{m}$.
The domain of h is U \ L, so can i assume that $\mathbb{R}^{m}$ was a typo and $f: \ V\setminus a\rightarrow$ U \ L ?
 
jakncoke said:
The domain of h is U \ L, so can i assume that $\mathbb{R}^{m}$ was a typo and $f: \ V\setminus a\rightarrow$ U \ L ?
I'm sorry, it's $g$.

Let $a\in \mathbb{R}^{n}$, let $V$ be an open set which contains $a$, and suppose that $g: \ V\setminus a\rightarrow \mathbb{R}^{m}$.
 
First of all the continuity is a must, for if

$
f(x) = \begin{array}{cc} \{ & \begin{array}{cc} -1 & x < 0 \\ 1 & x \geq 0 \end{array} \end{array} $

then $lim_{n \to \infty} \frac{1}{n} \to 1$ and $lim_{n \to \infty} - \frac{1}{n} \to -1$ ($n \in \mathbb{N}$)
f(x) is not continuous at x = 0.

so if you evaluate f(g(x)), $g(x) \in dom(F) $, then if $lim_{x \to a} g(x) \to 0$, then
$lim_{x \to a} f(g(x))$ could be either -1 or 1 (Depending on from which point (left or right) g(x) is heading towards a).

Which brings me to my next point, to verify continuity at a point $a$, you have to be able to evaluate it, namely it should be in the domain of f. if you remove it from the domain of f, like when you said $U-\{L\}$, then f(g(x)) $lim_{x \to a} f(g(x))$ g(x) is heading towards an undefined point, since $g(x) \to L$, how could you check continuity at an undefined point? Namely the definition of continuity is (f is continuous at a point a in its domain) if $lim_{x \to a} f(x) = f(a)$, where x can approach from any direction. if f(L) is not defined then how can we check continuity?

Your statement holds true if modified as follows
Let U be an open subset of $\mathbb{R}^{p}$, and g: U $\to \mathbb{R}^{m}$ and g is continuous at point $L \in U$
and let A be an open subet of $\mathbb{R}^{w}$, and h: A - {a} $ \to U$.
and assume $lim_{x \to a} h(x) = L$, and $lim_{y \to L} g(y) = M$, then it certainly holds that $lim_{x \to a} g(h(x)) = M$.

I also probably need to add the fact that a is not an isolated point of open set A. (can you tell me why?)
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
3K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K