Find Cubic Function & Polynomial of Degree 3

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a polynomial of degree 3 with real coefficients, where the roots of this new polynomial are the squares of the roots of the polynomial \( P(x) = x^3 + 9x^2 + 9x + 9 \). Participants explore the implications of this requirement and the relationships between the roots of the original and new polynomials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if \( a, b, c \) are the roots of \( P(x) \), then the roots of the new polynomial must be \( a^2, b^2, c^2 \).
  • Others question whether the roots should also include \( -\sqrt{x} \), suggesting a need for further clarification on the nature of the roots.
  • One participant outlines the relationships between the coefficients of the original polynomial and the new polynomial, deriving expressions for \( A, B, \) and \( C \) based on the roots.
  • Another participant confirms that they arrived at the same answer through a different method, indicating a potential agreement on the outcome but not on the approach.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no clear consensus on whether the roots of the new polynomial should include \( -\sqrt{x} \). While some participants agree on the relationships derived from the roots, the discussion remains open regarding the inclusion of negative roots and the methods used to arrive at the polynomial.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on polynomial properties and relationships between roots and coefficients, but there may be missing assumptions regarding the nature of the roots and the conditions under which the derived expressions hold true.

anemone
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Find a polynomial of degree 3 with real coefficients such that each of its roots is equal to the square of one root of the polynomial $P(x)=x^3+9x^2+9x+9$.
 
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Because the square of the roots shall be roots of the required polynomial so we must have $\sqrt x$ as roots of P(X)
So $(\sqrt x)^3 + 9 x + 9 (\sqrt x) + 9 = 0$
Or $(\sqrt x)(x + 9) = - 9(x+1)$
Or squaring $x(x+9)^2 = 81(x+1)^2$
Or $x(x^2 + 18 x + 81) = 81 x^2 + 162x + 81$
Or $x^3 - 63x^2 - 81 x - 81 = 0$
This is the required equation
 
anemone said:
Find a polynomial of degree 3 with real coefficients such that each of its roots is equal to the square of one root of the polynomial $P(x)=x^3+9x^2+9x+9$.
Does the above mean that if a,b,c are the 3 roots of the above polynomial then the the roots of the new polynomial must be $a^2 ,b^2 , c^2$ ??
 
kaliprasad said:
Because the square of the roots shall be roots of the required polynomial so we must have $\sqrt x$ as roots of P(X)
So $(\sqrt x)^3 + 9 x + 9 (\sqrt x) + 9 = 0$
Or $(\sqrt x)(x + 9) = - 9(x+1)$
Or squaring $x(x+9)^2 = 81(x+1)^2$
Or $x(x^2 + 18 x + 81) = 81 x^2 + 162x + 81$
Or $x^3 - 63x^2 - 81 x - 81 = 0$
This is the required equation

[sp]kaliprasand must we not have also $ -\sqrt x$ .Anyway i did this problem in a different way and i got the same answer [/sp]
 
solakis said:
[sp]kaliprasand must we not have also $ -\sqrt x$ .Anyway i did this problem in a different way and i got the same answer [/sp]

you are right and it is my mistake

as $\sqrt{x}$ is positive by definition so my line should be $\pm \sqrt{x}$ and the we get the same result because of squaring
 
[sp]
Let a,b,c be the roots of P(x) = $x^3+9x^2+9x+9$
And $a^2, b^2 ,c^2 $ the roots of P(y)= $y^3+Ay^2+By+C$
From the polynomial properties we have:
P(x) = $x^3+9x^2+9x+9$=(x-a)(x-b)(x-c) $\Rightarrow$...
.a+b+c=-9...... (1)
ab+ac+bc=9 ...(2)
abc=-9 ......(3)
And also P(y)= $y^3+Ay^2+By+C$=$(y-a^2)(y-b^2)(y-c^2)\Rightarrow $
$a^2+b^2+c^2=-A$..........(4)
$a^2b^2 +a^2c^2+b^2c^2=B$......(5)
$ a^2b^2c^2=-C$............(6)
From(3) we have:$a^2b^2c^2=81$ hence
C=-81.................(7)
From (1) and squaring we get :
$(a+b+c)^2=81\Rightarrow a^2+b^2+c^2= 81-2(ab+ac+bc) $ and using (2) we get :
$a^2+b^2+c^2= 63$ and hence :
A= -63...............(8)
From (2) and squaring we get:
$(ab+ac+bc)^2=81\Rightarrow a^2b^2+a^2c^2+b^2c^2+2(a^2bc+ab^2c+abc^2)=81\Rightarrow
a^2b^2+a^2c^2+b^2c^2+2(a(abc)+b(abc)+c(abc))=81$ and using (3) we have:
$a^2b^2+a^2c^2+b^2c^2 =81-2(-9a-9b-9c)=81+18(a+b+c)$ and using (1) we have:
$a^2b^2+a^2c^2+b^2c^2=81+18(-9)=-81$ hence:
B=-81...............(9)
And P(y)= $y^3+Ay^2+By+C =y^3-63y^2-81y-81$ by using (7),(8),(9)
[/sp]
 
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