Find Derivative of y=2^x Using Definition

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the derivative of the function y=2^x using the definition of the derivative. Participants explore various approaches, challenges, and mathematical reasoning related to this problem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests assistance in finding the derivative of y=2^x using the definition of the derivative.
  • Another participant asks what has been done so far and what the definition of the derivative states.
  • A participant expresses doubt about the suitability of the problem for novices, suggesting that showing convergence is challenging.
  • One participant presents a mathematical approach involving the limit of (f(x+h)-f(x))/h and discusses the difficulty of showing that the limit exists, particularly for a=2.
  • Another participant suggests rewriting y=2^x as y=exp(x.ln2) and provides a derivative based on that transformation.
  • Some participants debate the appropriateness of using the definition of the derivative versus starting from the integral definition of ln(x).
  • One participant challenges the difficulty of determining the limit involved in the derivative calculation, providing a detailed mathematical argument.
  • Another participant agrees that the limit can be determined easily, but emphasizes that proving the assumptions made in the process is the more challenging aspect.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the complexity of the problem and the best approach to take. There is no consensus on whether the problem is suitable for novices or on the most effective method for finding the derivative using the definition.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the difficulty in showing the existence of certain limits and the reliance on assumptions in their mathematical reasoning. The discussion reflects varying levels of comfort with the underlying concepts and definitions.

hackensack
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I need to find the derivative of y=2^x using the definition of derivative.
 
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What have you done so far? What does the definition of derivative say?
 
This was also posted in the calculus section and there are about 10 replies there.
 
I doubt this is a suitable problem for a novice. even showing convergence is tough. i will look at the other posted answers. there is a good reason people start from the integral definition of ln(x) to derive this result.
 
If f(x)= ax, the f(x+h)= aa+x= axah so
f(a+ h)- f(a)= ax(ah- 1).

The derivative is lim (f(x+h)- f(x))/h= axlim {(ah-1)/h}. Notice that that is ax time a limit that is independent of x. That is, as long as the derivative exists, it is ax times a constant. The problem is showing that the lim{(ah-1)/h} EXISTS! And then showing that, if a= 2, that limit is ln(2).

Showing that that limit exists is sufficiently non-trivial that many people (myself included), as mathwonk said, prefer to define ln(x) as the integral, from 1 to x of (1/t)dt. From that, it is possible to prove all properties of ln(x) including (trivially) that the derivative is 1/x. Defining ex as the inverse function of ln(x) leads to all the properties of ex (including the fact that it is some number to a power!), in particular that its derivative is ex itself and, from that, that the derivative of ax is (ln a) ax.
 
dunno if I'm missing the point here but...

write
y=2^x
as
y=exp(x.ln2)
=>
y'=ln2.exp(x.ln2)
 
No, you did exactly what HallsofIvy was advocating, he was just pointing out that the question asked for it to be solved using the definition of a derivative, which makes things much harder. Easier to approach things from the other way, starting by defining the integral of 1/x.
 
"The derivative is lim (f(x+h)- f(x))/h= axlim {(ah-1)/h}. Notice that that is ax time a limit that is independent of x. That is, as long as the derivative exists, it is ax times a constant. The problem is showing that the lim{(ah-1)/h} EXISTS! And then showing that, if a= 2, that limit is ln(2)."

tell me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seems so hard to determine this limit..
(a^h-1)/h = (exp (h*ln(a) )-1) / h
= ( 1 + h*ln(a) + o(h*ln(a)) - 1 ) / h h->0
= ln(a) + o(ln(a))
so lim (a^h-1)/h = ln(a) ...
 
brout said:
"The derivative is lim (f(x+h)- f(x))/h= axlim {(ah-1)/h}. Notice that that is ax time a limit that is independent of x. That is, as long as the derivative exists, it is ax times a constant. The problem is showing that the lim{(ah-1)/h} EXISTS! And then showing that, if a= 2, that limit is ln(2)."

tell me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seems so hard to determine this limit..
(a^h-1)/h = (exp (h*ln(a) )-1) / h
= ( 1 + h*ln(a) + o(h*ln(a)) - 1 ) / h h->0
= ln(a) + o(ln(a))
so lim (a^h-1)/h = ln(a) ...

Yes, assuming that you know "(exp (h*ln(a) )-1) / h= ( 1 + h*ln(a) + o(h*ln(a)) - 1 ) / h " its easy to do it. Proving what you assumed is the hard part!
 

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