Find formula for solution heat equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a formula for the solution to the heat equation \( u_t = u_{xx} \) with periodic initial conditions defined by a function \( \phi \). Participants explore various approaches to derive the solution, including separation of variables and the implications of different values of the parameter \( \lambda \). The discussion also touches on proving the uniqueness of the solution and the conditions for periodicity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose using separation of variables to express the solution as \( u(x,t) = X(x)T(t) \) and derive a system of equations for \( X \) and \( T \).
  • For \( \lambda < 0 \), it is noted that the resulting functions do not satisfy periodicity conditions.
  • For \( \lambda = 0 \), a trivial solution \( X(x)T(t) = C \) is discussed, with some participants questioning its validity and whether it is already included in the case of \( \lambda > 0 \).
  • For \( \lambda > 0 \), participants derive the form of \( X(x) \) using trigonometric functions, leading to a series solution involving coefficients \( A_{\lambda} \) and \( B_{\lambda} \).
  • There is a discussion about whether \( \lambda \) should be treated as a positive integer or if an integral approach is more appropriate.
  • Participants express uncertainty about how to incorporate periodicity conditions into the solution, particularly how the period of \( X(x) \) relates to the period of the initial function \( \phi \).
  • Some participants suggest that the period of \( X(x) \) is \( \frac{2\pi}{\sqrt{\lambda}} \) and must be a multiple of the period \( \tau \) of \( \phi \).
  • There is a proposal to adjust the series solution to include the trivial solution by lowering the sum boundary to \( k=0 \).
  • Participants discuss the need to verify that the derived solution satisfies the initial value problem and whether additional steps are required to prove uniqueness.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approach of using separation of variables and the forms of the solutions for different values of \( \lambda \). However, there is no consensus on the treatment of the trivial solution, the necessity of using an integral for \( \lambda \), and how to properly incorporate periodicity conditions into the solution.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved questions about the treatment of \( \lambda \) and the implications of periodicity on the derived solutions. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of the conditions necessary for the uniqueness of the solution.

evinda
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Hello! (Wave)

Let $\phi \in C^1(\mathbb{R})$ and periodic.
We consider the problem

$u_t=u_{xx}, x \in \mathbb{R}, \ 0<t<\infty$,

with initial data $\phi$.
I want to compute a formula for a solution $u$ and I want to prove strictly that this formula solves the initial value problem. I also want to show that there is no other solution ($C^1(\mathbb{R})$ and periodic).

I have thought the following.

$u(x,t)=X(x) T(t)$

$u(0,x)=\phi(x)$

$u_t=u_{xx} \Rightarrow X(x) T'(t)=X''(x) T(t) \Rightarrow \frac{T'(t)}{T(t)}=\frac{X''(x)}{X(x)}=-\lambda$

So we have the system

$\left\{\begin{matrix}
X''(x)+\lambda X(x)=0\\
T'(t)+\lambda T(t)=0
\end{matrix}\right.$.

So $T(t)$ is of the form $T(t)=c_1 e^{-\lambda t}$.

The characteristic equation of $X''(x)+\lambda X(x)=0$ is $\mu^2=-\lambda$.

For $\lambda<0$ we get that $X(x)=c_1 e^{\sqrt{-\lambda}x}+c_2 e^{-\sqrt{-\lambda}x}$.

We have that $X(x+T)=c_1 e^{\sqrt{-\lambda}x} e^{\sqrt{-\lambda}T}+c_2 e^{-\sqrt{-\lambda}x}e^{-\sqrt{-\lambda} T}$

This holds only if $ e^{\sqrt{-\lambda}T}=1 \Rightarrow \sqrt{-\lambda}T=0 \Rightarrow T=0$, contradiction.

Am I right so far? (Thinking)
 
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Hey evinda! (Smile)

Yes, you are right so far for $\lambda<0$.
 
For $\lambda=0$ we have $X(x)=c_1 x+c_2$.

$X(x+T)=c_1(x+T)+c_2= c_1 x+ c_1 T+c_2=c_1 x+ c_2 \Rightarrow c_1 T=0 \Rightarrow c_1=0$.

So for $\lambda=0$ we get that $X(x)T(t)=C$ for some constant $C$.

Do we accept the solution that we get for $\lambda=0$ ?For $\lambda>0$ we have $\mu=\pm \sqrt{\lambda}i$ and thus $X(x)=c_1 \cos{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)}+ c_2 \sin{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)}$.

$X(x)$ is $2 \pi$-periodic, since it contains the trigonometric functions.

So $u(x,t)=C+\sum_{\lambda=1}^{\infty} c_{\lambda}(A_{\lambda} \cos{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)}+B_{\lambda}\sin{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)} ) e^{-\lambda t}$.Right? Or have I done something wrong? (Thinking)
 
evinda said:
For $\lambda=0$ we have $X(x)=c_1 x+c_2$.

$X(x+T)=c_1(x+T)+c_2= c_1 x+ c_1 T+c_2=c_1 x+ c_2 \Rightarrow c_1 T=0 \Rightarrow c_1=0$.

So for $\lambda=0$ we get that $X(x)T(t)=C$ for some constant $C$.

Do we accept the solution that we get for $\lambda=0$ ?

It's a valid albeit trivial solution, so we should include it.
Isn't it effectively already included in the case $\lambda >0$ though? (Wondering)

evinda said:
For $\lambda>0$ we have $\mu=\pm \sqrt{\lambda}i$ and thus $X(x)=c_1 \cos{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)}+ c_2 \sin{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)}$.

$X(x)$ is $2 \pi$-periodic, since it contains the trigonometric functions.

So $u(x,t)=C+\sum_{\lambda=1}^{\infty} c_{\lambda}(A_{\lambda} \cos{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)}+B_{\lambda}\sin{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)} ) e^{-\lambda t}$.

Right? Or have I done something wrong?

$\lambda$ is not necessarily a positive integer is it?
Shouldn't we use an integral? (Wondering)

And isn't $c_\lambda$ redundant, since we're already multiplying with arbitrary constants? (Wondering)
 
I like Serena said:
It's a valid albeit trivial solution, so we should include it.
Isn't it effectively already included in the case $\lambda >0$ though? (Wondering)

How?
I like Serena said:
$\lambda$ is not necessarily a positive integer is it?
Shouldn't we use an integral? (Wondering)

And isn't $c_\lambda$ redundant, since we're already multiplying with arbitrary constants? (Wondering)

So do we have that $u(x,t)=\int_0^{\infty} [A_{\lambda} \cos{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)}+B_{\lambda} \sin{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)}] e^{-\lambda t} d{\lambda}$ ? (Thinking)
 
evinda said:
So do we have that $u(x,t)=\int_0^{\infty} [A_{\lambda} \cos{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)}+B_{\lambda} \sin{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)}] e^{-\lambda t} d{\lambda}$ ?

Oh wait! (Wait)
We need it to be periodic for $t=0$ don't we?
That puts a restriction on it, doesn't it? (Wondering)
 
I like Serena said:
Oh wait! (Wait)
We need it to be periodic for $t=0$ don't we?
That puts a restriction on it, doesn't it? (Wondering)

What restriction? (Thinking)
 
evinda said:
What restriction? (Thinking)

Suppose $\phi$ is periodic with period $\tau$.
Then we must have that $\sqrt{\lambda}(x+\tau)=\sqrt{\lambda}x + 2\pi k$ don't we? (Wondering)
 
I like Serena said:
Suppose $\phi$ is periodic with period $\tau$.
Then we must have that $\sqrt{\lambda}(x+\tau)=\sqrt{\lambda}x + 2\pi k$ don't we? (Wondering)

Since we have the functions $\cos{x}$, $\sin{x}$, doesn't this imply that the period is $2 \pi$ ? Or am I wrong? (Thinking)
 
  • #10
evinda said:
For $\lambda>0$ we have $\mu=\pm \sqrt{\lambda}i$ and thus $X(x)=c_1 \cos{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)}+ c_2 \sin{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)}$.

$X(x)$ is $2 \pi$-periodic, since it contains the trigonometric functions.

I'm afraid that the period of $X(x)$ is not (necessarily) $2\pi$. (Worried)

evinda said:
Since we have the functions $\cos{x}$, $\sin{x}$, doesn't this imply that the period is $2 \pi$ ? Or am I wrong?

The period of $\cos$ and $\sin$ is indeed $2\pi$.
But $X(x)=c_1 \cos{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)}+ c_2 \sin{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)}$ is then periodic with period $\frac{2\pi}{\sqrt\lambda}$ isn't it?
And if $\phi$ has period $\tau$, then $X(x)$ must have a period that is a multiple of $\tau$ mustn't it? (Wondering)
 
  • #11
I like Serena said:
I'm afraid that the period of $X(x)$ is not (necessarily) $2\pi$. (Worried)
The period of $\cos$ and $\sin$ is indeed $2\pi$.
But $X(x)=c_1 \cos{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)}+ c_2 \sin{(\sqrt{\lambda}x)}$ is then periodic with period $\frac{2\pi}{\sqrt\lambda}$ isn't it?
And if $\phi$ has period $\tau$, then $X(x)$ must have a period that is a multiple of $\tau$ mustn't it? (Wondering)

Ok, but how can we include this restriction at the interval? (Thinking)

- - - Updated - - -

The period of $X(x)$ is $\frac{2 \pi}{\sqrt{\lambda}}=\frac{\tau}{k}$, which is a multiple of $\tau$, right? (Thinking)
 
  • #12
evinda said:
Ok, but how can we include this restriction at the interval? (Thinking)

If $\phi$ has period $\tau$, we must have that $X(x+\tau)=X(x)$.
That is:
$$\cos(\sqrt\lambda(x+\tau))=\cos(\sqrt\lambda x) \quad\Rightarrow\quad
\sqrt\lambda(x+\tau)=\sqrt\lambda x + 2\pi k \quad\Rightarrow\quad
\sqrt\lambda=\frac{2\pi k}{\tau}$$
So we should have:
$$u(x,t;\tau) = \sum_{k=1}^\infty \left[A_k \cos\left(\frac{2\pi k}{\tau}x\right) + B_k \sin\left(\frac{2\pi k}{\tau}x\right)\right]e^{-\frac{4\pi^2 k^2}{\tau^2}t}$$
shouldn't we? (Wondering)
 
  • #13
I like Serena said:
If $\phi$ has period $\tau$, we must have that $X(x+\tau)=X(x)$.
That is:
$$\cos(\sqrt\lambda(x+\tau))=\cos(\sqrt\lambda x) \quad\Rightarrow\quad
\sqrt\lambda(x+\tau)=\sqrt\lambda x + 2\pi k \quad\Rightarrow\quad
\sqrt\lambda=\frac{2\pi k}{\tau}$$
So we should have:
$$u(x,t;\tau) = \sum_{k=1}^\infty \left[A_k \cos\left(\frac{2\pi k}{\tau}x\right) + B_k \sin\left(\frac{2\pi k}{\tau}x\right)\right]e^{-\frac{4\pi^2 k^2}{\tau^2}t}$$
shouldn't we? (Wondering)

I see... (Nod)
Ans is the trivial solution now included? If so, how do we get it? (Thinking)
 
  • #14
evinda said:
I see...
Ans is the trivial solution now included? If so, how do we get it?

Suppose we lower the sum boundary to $k=0$.
Will we include the trivial solution then? (Wondering)
 
  • #15
I like Serena said:
Suppose we lower the sum boundary to $k=0$.
Will we include the trivial solution then? (Wondering)

Yes, we will... (Nod)

And have we proven strictly like that, that the formula that we found solves the initial value problem? Or do we have to substitute it at the given equations? (Thinking)
 
  • #16
evinda said:
Yes, we will...

And have we proven strictly like that, that the formula that we found solves the initial value problem? Or do we have to substitute it at the given equations?

The solution we found solves the given heat equation for a boundary condition with period $\tau$.
We still need to find $A_k$ and $B_k$ for a given $\phi$. Can we? (Wondering)
And we still need to verify that there is no other solution. (Thinking)
 
  • #17
I like Serena said:
The solution we found solves the given heat equation for a boundary condition with period $\tau$.
We still need to find $A_k$ and $B_k$ for a given $\phi$. Can we? (Wondering)

We just know that it has to hold that $\sum_{k=0}^{\infty} \left[ A_k \cos{\left( \frac{2k \pi x}{\tau}\right)}+B_k \sin{\left( \frac{2k \pi x}{\tau}\right)}\right]=\phi(x,0)$.

Or is there an additional info? (Thinking) Do we pick a specific $\phi$ ? (Worried)

I like Serena said:
And we still need to verify that there is no other solution. (Thinking)
Do we show the uniqueness of the solution using the energy method? (Thinking)
Or do we show it somehow else? (Nerd)
 
  • #18
evinda said:
We just know that it has to hold that $\sum_{k=0}^{\infty} \left[ A_k \cos{\left( \frac{2k \pi x}{\tau}\right)}+B_k \sin{\left( \frac{2k \pi x}{\tau}\right)}\right]=\phi(x,0)$.

Or is there an additional info? (Thinking) Do we pick a specific $\phi$ ?

Do we show the uniqueness of the solution using the energy method?
Or do we show it somehow else?

As before, every periodic function can be written uniquely as a Fourier Series.

If $s(x)$ is a function with period $P$, then:
$$s(x)=\frac{a_0}2 + \sum_{n=1}^\infty a_n \cos(2\pi n x/P) + b_n \sin(2\pi n x/P)$$
where:
\begin{cases}a_n = \frac 2P\int_0^P s(x)\cos(2\pi n x/P)\,dx \\
b_n = \frac 2P\int_0^P s(x)\sin(2\pi n x/P)\, dx \end{cases}
(Thinking)
 
  • #19
I like Serena said:
As before, every periodic function can be written uniquely as a Fourier Series.

If $s(x)$ is a function with period $P$, then:
$$s(x)=\frac{a_0}2 + \sum_{n=1}^\infty a_n \cos(2\pi n x/P) + b_n \sin(2\pi n x/P)$$
where:
\begin{cases}a_n = \frac 2P\int_0^P s(x)\cos(2\pi n x/P)\,dx \\
b_n = \frac 2P\int_0^P s(x)\sin(2\pi n x/P)\, dx \end{cases}
(Thinking)

So in our case we have that

$$A_k=\frac{2}{\tau} \int_0^T u(x,t;T) \cos{\left( \frac{2 k \pi x}{T}\right)} dx \\ B_k=\frac{2}{T} \int_0^T u(x,t;T) \sin{\left( \frac{2 k \pi x}{T}\right)} dx$$

Right?
 
  • #20
evinda said:
So in our case we have that

$$A_k=\frac{2}{\tau} \int_0^T u(x,t;T) \cos{\left( \frac{2 k \pi x}{T}\right)} dx \\ B_k=\frac{2}{T} \int_0^T u(x,t;T) \sin{\left( \frac{2 k \pi x}{T}\right)} dx$$

Right?

Aren't we trying to find the solution $u(x,t;\tau)$?
Then we cannot use it as input to find it can we? (Worried)
 
  • #21
I like Serena said:
Aren't we trying to find the solution $u(x,t;\tau)$?
Then we cannot use it as input to find it can we? (Worried)

Ah right... For $t=0$ we have:

$$\phi(x,0)=\sum_{k=0}^{\infty} \left[ A_k \cos{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)}+B_k \sin{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)}\right]$$

where

$$A_k=\frac{2}{T} \int_0^T \phi(x,0) \cos{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)} dx$$

$$B_k=\frac{2}{T} \int_0^T \phi(x,0) \sin{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)} dx$$

Right? If so, do we have to write a different formula for $A_0$ ? (Thinking)
 
  • #22
evinda said:
Ah right... For $t=0$ we have:

$$\phi(x,0)=\sum_{k=0}^{\infty} \left[ A_k \cos{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)}+B_k \sin{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)}\right]$$

where

$$A_k=\frac{2}{T} \int_0^T \phi(x,0) \cos{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)} dx$$

$$B_k=\frac{2}{T} \int_0^T \phi(x,0) \sin{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)} dx$$

Right? If so, do we have to write a different formula for $A_0$ ?

Isn't $ϕ∈C^1(\mathbb R)$? So shouldn't it have only 1 argument? (Wondering)
And yes, we'll have to make an exception for $A_0$ unfortunately.
 
  • #23
So is it as follows?

$$\phi(x)=\sum_{k=0}^{\infty} \left[ A_k \cos{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)}+B_k \sin{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)}\right]$$

where

$$A_k=\frac{2}{T} \int_0^T \phi(x) \cos{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)} dx, k=1,2, \dots$$

$$A_0=\frac{4}{T} \int_0^T \phi(x) dx$$

$$B_k=\frac{2}{T} \int_0^T \phi(x) \sin{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)} dx$$

Or am I somewhere wrong? (Thinking)
 
  • #24
evinda said:
So is it as follows?

$$\phi(x)=\sum_{k=0}^{\infty} \left[ A_k \cos{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)}+B_k \sin{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)}\right]$$

where

$$A_k=\frac{2}{T} \int_0^T \phi(x) \cos{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)} dx, k=1,2, \dots$$

$$A_0=\frac{4}{T} \int_0^T \phi(x) dx$$

$$B_k=\frac{2}{T} \int_0^T \phi(x) \sin{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)} dx$$

Or am I somewhere wrong? (Thinking)

That should be $A_0=\frac{1}{T} \int_0^T \phi(x) dx$.
Or alternatively:
$$\phi(x)=\frac {A_0} 2 + \sum_{k=1}^{\infty} \left[ A_k \cos{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)}+B_k \sin{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)}\right]$$
Note that $A_0$ represents the trivial solution that we had included in the solution. (Nerd)
 
  • #25
I like Serena said:
That should be $A_0=\frac{1}{T} \int_0^T \phi(x) dx$.
Or alternatively:
$$\phi(x)=\frac {A_0} 2 + \sum_{k=1}^{\infty} \left[ A_k \cos{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)}+B_k \sin{\left( \frac{2 \pi k x}{T}\right)}\right]$$
Note that $A_0$ represents the trivial solution that we had included in the solution. (Nerd)

Ah yes, right... (Nod)

Does the above procedure suffice for a strict proof that the formula solves the initial value problem? (Thinking) Or do we have to substitute the solution at the given problem?

Also I was sondering if the $u(x,t; \tau)$ that we found is periodic although it contains the exponential function... (Worried)

In order to show the uniqueness, we cannot use the statement with the Fourier series that you mentioned because of the exponential... Or am I wrong? :confused:
 
  • #26
evinda said:
Does the above procedure suffice for a strict proof that the formula solves the initial value problem? Or do we have to substitute the solution at the given problem?

We didn't introduce extraneous solutions, such as would happen if we squared something.
And I believe we didn't 'miss' any solutions.
So I think it should suffice for a strict proof.

Generally it's a good idea though to verify if a solution solves the problem statement - if only to make sure we didn't make a mistake. :eek:

evinda said:
Also I was sondering if the $u(x,t; \tau)$ that we found is periodic although it contains the exponential function...

Indeed, $u(x,t; \tau)$ is not periodic with respect to $t$.
That wasn't required though, was it?
It seems to me that only the initial value $\phi$ is supposed to be periodic.
As an added bonus $u(x,t; \tau)$ is periodic with respect to $x$ for any given $t$. (Thinking)

evinda said:
In order to show the uniqueness, we cannot use the statement with the Fourier series that you mentioned because of the exponential... Or am I wrong? :confused:

How would the exponential make it non-unique? (Wondering)
 
  • #27
I like Serena said:
We didn't introduce extraneous solutions, such as would happen if we squared something.
And I believe we didn't 'miss' any solutions.
So I think it should suffice for a strict proof.

Generally it's a good idea though to verify if a solution solves the problem statement - if only to make sure we didn't make a mistake. :eek:

(Nod)

I like Serena said:
Indeed, $u(x,t; \tau)$ is not periodic with respect to $t$.
That wasn't required though, was it?
It seems to me that only the initial value $\phi$ is supposed to be periodic.
As an added bonus $u(x,t; \tau)$ is periodic with respect to $x$ for any given $t$. (Thinking)

No, ii wasn't required... (Shake)

I see... (Nod)

I like Serena said:
How would the exponential make it non-unique? (Wondering)
So do we justify the uniqueness of the solution as follows? (Thinking)For a given $t$, $u(x,t; \tau)$ is periodic with respect to $x$, because of the given initial data.
So for an arbitrary $t$, $u(x,t; \tau)$ is written uniquelly as a Fourier series.
Thus, there is no other solution $u$ that satisfies our initial value problem.
 
  • #28
evinda said:
No, it wasn't required...

I see...

So do we justify the uniqueness of the solution as follows?

For a given $t$, $u(x,t; \tau)$ is periodic with respect to $x$, because of the given initial data.
So for an arbitrary $t$, $u(x,t; \tau)$ is written uniquelly as a Fourier series.
Thus, there is no other solution $u$ that satisfies our initial value problem.

That seems fine to me. (Nod)
 
  • #29
I like Serena said:
That seems fine to me. (Nod)

Great... Thanks a lot! (Smirk)
 

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