Finding A for B Using Gradient and Curl

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of finding a vector field \(\bf A\) given a magnetic field \(\bf B\) expressed as the curl of \(\bf A\). Participants explore various methods and approaches to derive \(\bf A\), particularly in the context of non-uniform magnetic fields and the implications of boundary conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks for a general approach or algorithm to find \(\bf A\) from \(\bf B\), especially in numerical contexts.
  • Another participant suggests using integral forms and symmetries, mentioning the Poisson equation under certain gauge conditions.
  • A different participant notes that their specific case involves a non-uniform \(\bf B\) field and expresses uncertainty about the divergence condition of their proposed \(\bf B\). They seek to approximate \(\bf B\) as a combination of constants and variables.
  • One participant warns that the proposed form of \(\bf B\) does not satisfy the divergence-free condition required for magnetic fields, referencing Helmholtz's Theorem as a mathematical framework for determining vector fields.
  • Another participant acknowledges their oversight regarding the divergence of \(\bf B\) and expresses intent to correct their approach.
  • A later reply introduces the concept of a constant of integration, suggesting that \(\bf A\) can be modified by adding a vector constant.
  • There is a suggestion to derive \(\bf A\) by explicitly writing out the definition of the cross product and integrating.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of specific forms of \(\bf B\) and the implications of boundary conditions. There is no consensus on a single method for finding \(\bf A\), and multiple approaches are discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations regarding the divergence condition for magnetic fields and the dependence on boundary conditions for uniquely determining vector fields. The discussion reflects various assumptions and conditions that are not fully resolved.

Zhivago
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Hello everyone!

Having a field \bf B = \nabla \times \bf A , how is it possible to get \bf A ?
For constant fields, the answer is easy, but is there a general approach to find A ?
Some algorithm to do it numerically would help me immensly, too.
If anyone knows some book or reference that could help me, I'd be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
 
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In usual classroom cases, there is ussually only one component for the field, making it an ordinary differential equation. Antoher choice is to use \int_{S}BdS=\int_{\partial S}Adl, and exploit possible symmetries of the fields. In the most general case, you might use the fact that \nabla \times B=\mu_{0}j, and assuming the gauge condition \nabla \cdot A=0, you have to solve the Poisson equation: \nabla^{2}A=-\mu_{0}j
 
Thanks for your answer

In my case, J is not known (actually it's one of the things I will want to find). B is not uniform , but for a first approximation I would want to find B(x,y,z) = (0 , 0 , B0 + k*z) , B0 >> k It's a constant magnetic field with a small gradient on the top of it.

k is only some small constant.
or something like B = (k*x, 0, B0)
 
Be careful. The form of B that you are looking for doesn't seem to satisfy div B = 0 anywhere, so it isn't a legit magnetic field.

The general way to approach this is with Helmholtz's Theorem. IT is a purely mathematical result that is often invoked in EM. For a bounded region it states that for an arbitrary vector field,

<br /> \bf P(r)= \nabla \left[ \int_V \frac{-\nabla \prime \cdot P(r\prime)\, dV\prime}{4 \pi |r-r\prime|} + \int_S \frac{P(r\prime)\cdot dS\prime}{4 \pi |r-r\prime|}\right]<br /> + \nabla \times \left[ \int_V \frac{\nabla \prime \times P(r\prime)\, dV\prime}{4 \pi |r-r\prime|} + \int_S \frac{P(r\prime) \times dS\prime}{4 \pi |r-r\prime|}\right]<br />

where the surface integrals are over closed surfaces. So you need to specify the divergence and the curl and the boundary conditions in order to uniquely determine a vector field. For magnetic fields, div B = 0 always, which simplifies things a bit. If your boundary conditions are also zero, then you basically just need to perform an integration and curl operation.

jason
 
Thanks a lot Jason!
I just wrote some B field that somehow resembled what i wanted, didn't even check its divergence.
I'll try to figure it out now
 
Zhivago said:
Hello everyone!

Having a field \bf B = \nabla \times \bf A , how is it possible to get \bf A ?

You should be aware that there is a constant of integration, phi. Phi is a vector.

A \leftarrow A&#039; = A + \phi

I think you should find that the best approach is to write out the definition of the cross product of A, in terms of the parital derivatives with respect to your coordinates, and then integrate.
 
Last edited:

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