Finding the 3rd Number to Keep Variance Unchanged

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a third number to add to the set of numbers {0, 2} such that the variance remains unchanged. Participants explore the implications of using different formulas for variance calculation and the conditions under which the problem can be solved.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the variance, calculated as $\sigma^2=\frac{1}{2}\left[(0-1)^2+(2-1)^2\right]=1$, should remain the same when a third number $y$ is added.
  • Others argue that the equations needed to solve for $y$ include both the mean $\mu=\frac{1}{3}\left[0+2+y\right]$ and the variance equation $\sigma^2=\frac{1}{3}\left[(0-\mu)^2+(2-\mu)^2+(y-\mu)^2\right]=1$, leading to a quadratic equation in $y$.
  • Some participants note that dividing the variance by $n$ instead of $n-1$ requires the expected mean $\mu$ to be known, otherwise it results in a loss of degrees of freedom.
  • There is a suggestion that the problem may involve more unknowns than equations, complicating the solution process.
  • A later reply questions the interpretation of the problem, suggesting that the mean and variance can be calculated directly from the initial data set and that $y$ can be solved accordingly.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of the problem and the necessary conditions for solving it. There is no consensus on how to proceed with finding the third number.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in the problem, including the need for the expected mean and the implications of having more unknowns than equations.

Yankel
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Hello

I have a problem solving this question...

to the numbers 0 and 2, we want to add a 3rd number, such that the variance won't change. What is the 3rd number ?

(when I say variance I mean dividing by n, not by n-1)

thanks !
 
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Yankel said:
Hello

I have a problem solving this question...

to the numbers 0 and 2, we want to add a 3rd number, such that the variance won't change. What is the 3rd number ?

(when I say variance I mean dividing by n, not by n-1)

thanks !
The variance is the square root of the sum of the differences from of the data points from the mean so... $\sigma^2=\frac{1}{2}\left[(0-1)^2+(2-1)^2\right]=1$. If we add the new point $y$, we will need to solve the system of equations. $\mu=\frac{1}{3}\left[ 0+2+y\right]$ and $\sigma^2=\frac{1}{3}\left[(0-\mu)^2+(2-\mu)^2+(y-\mu)^2\right]=1$ This will give a quadratic equation in $y$
 
TheEmptySet said:
The variance is the square root of the sum of the differences from of the data points from the mean so... $\sigma^2=\frac{1}{2}\left[(0-1)^2+(2-1)^2\right]=1$. If we add the new point $y$, we will need to solve the system of equations. $\mu=\frac{1}{3}\left[ 0+2+y\right]$ and $\sigma^2=\frac{1}{3}\left[(0-\mu)^2+(2-\mu)^2+(y-\mu)^2\right]=1$ This will give a quadratic equation in $y$

If we divide the variance by n instead of by (n-1), we can only do so if the expected mean $\mu$ is given.
Otherwise we would lose a degree of freedom.

So the set of equations should be:

$\sigma^2=\frac{1}{2}\left[(0-\mu)^2+(2-\mu)^2\right]$
$\sigma^2=\frac{1}{3}\left[(0-\mu)^2+(2-\mu)^2+(y-\mu)^2\right]$

This does introduce the problem that we have more unknowns than equations.
 
I like Serena said:
If we divide the variance by n instead of by (n-1), we can only do so if the expected mean $\mu$ is given.
Otherwise we would lose a degree of freedom.

So the set of equations should be:

$\sigma^2=\frac{1}{2}\left[(0-\mu)^2+(2-\mu)^2\right]$
$\sigma^2=\frac{1}{3}\left[(0-\mu)^2+(2-\mu)^2+(y-\mu)^2\right]$

This does introduce the problem that we have more unknowns than equations.
Maybe I am misunderstanding something but the way I read the problem was if we have the data set $\{0,2 \}$ we can calculate the mean and variance directly. Now if a new data set is created by adding one other point $\{0,2,y \}$. We can now calculate the new population mean and the new variance of this three point data set. Now we can just solve for what $y$ needs to be. I will wait for clarification from the OP on this.
 

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