Finding the Intersection of Sets X and Y with Algebraic Methods

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves finding the intersection of two sets defined by algebraic expressions: X, which consists of elements of the form 4n + 1 for natural numbers n, and Y, which consists of elements of the form m² + m + 1 for natural numbers m. The goal is to determine the common elements in these two sets.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss setting the two expressions equal to each other and explore the implications of this approach. One participant notes a discrepancy in the results obtained through direct substitution compared to a more comprehensive computational method. Another participant suggests examining the parity of m to derive conditions for the intersection.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants sharing insights and confirming each other's reasoning. Some guidance has been provided regarding the conditions under which elements from both sets can be equal, but no consensus on a complete algebraic solution has been reached yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants are exploring the implications of their algebraic manipulations and the nature of the sets involved. There is an acknowledgment of the limitations of their initial approaches and the need for a more thorough examination of the sets' properties.

yorick
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Homework Statement


X = {x: x=4n+1, n\inN}
Y = {y: y=m^{2}+m+1, m\inN}

Find: Y\capX

The Attempt at a Solution



First I tried to set x=y
\Rightarrow n^{2}+n+1=4n+1
\Rightarrow n^{2}-3n=0
\Rightarrow n(n-3)=0
\Rightarrow n=0,3

Subbing this into either equation yields {1,13}.
I thought I was doing okay.
However I was comparing assignments with a classmate and she had this massive set that just keeps on going: {1, 13, 21, 57, 73, 133, 157, 241, 273, ...}
After I thought about it, this made sense, as my solution only found the elements that are in both sets when n is the same for both equations, but set equality relies only on its elements, not at what stage they were reached.
She'd done this the long way round, scripting a little program to calculate all elements for both sets then compare the elements and find the common ones.
What I'd like to know is, how can I go about solving this algebraically?

Thanks in advance,
Yorick.
 
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write the equation as it is.

m^2 + m + 1 = 4n + 1
--> m^2 + m = 4n
--> m(m+1) = 4n

now rhs is a multiple of 4... and therefore, so must the lhs. But if m is even, m + 1 is odd...
do you see where i am going with this? can you proceed?
 
Yes, Thankyou!

So basically the solution is something like {x: x=m^2 + m + 1 ; m/4\inN or (m+1)/4\inN}
 
yorick said:
Yes, Thankyou!

So basically the solution is something like {x: x=m^2 + m + 1 ; m/4\inN or (m+1)/4\inN}

yep... that's right!
 

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