Flipping the sign in the definition of derivative

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the definition of the derivative and whether the sign of the variable \( h \) can be flipped in the limit definition of the derivative. Participants explore the implications of this sign change in the context of differentiability and limits.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether it is valid to flip the sign of \( h \) in the limit definition of the derivative, expressing skepticism about this practice.
  • Another participant argues that there is no difference between the two definitions, suggesting that changing the variable from \( h \) to \( -h \) does not affect the limit as \( h \) approaches 0.
  • A third participant notes that differentiability implies the same derivative is obtained regardless of the direction of approach (left or right).
  • A later reply suggests using the \( \epsilon-\delta \) definition of limits as a way to clarify doubts regarding the sign change.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of flipping the sign of \( h \) in the derivative definition. Some assert that it is acceptable, while others remain skeptical, indicating that the discussion is unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference the \( \epsilon-\delta \) approach, suggesting that there may be limitations in understanding the implications of the sign change without this formal framework.

Mr Davis 97
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Is it true that if ##f## is differentiable at ##a## that ##f'(a) = \lim_{h\to a}\frac{f(a+h) - f(a)}{h} = \lim_{h\to a}\frac{f(a-h) - f(a)}{-h}##. That is, can the sign of ##h## be flipped. I've seen this a few times and it seems a bit dubious.
 
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you mean h --> 0. and there is no difference between these two definitions, just changing the name of the variable from h to -h. to convince yourself use the trick for teaching algebra that uses an empty box instead of a variable, i.e. limit as ( )-->0, of f( a + ( ))/( ). and any letter you put in the box means the same thing, whether you call it h or s or -h or anything else. Well to be honest this is true because h-->0 if and only if -h -->0.
 
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Differentiability means that we get the same derivative regardless whether we approach from the left or from the right.
 
Mr Davis 97 said:
Is it true that if ##f## is differentiable at ##a## that ##f'(a) = \lim_{h\to a}\frac{f(a+h) - f(a)}{h} = \lim_{h\to a}\frac{f(a-h) - f(a)}{-h}##. That is, can the sign of ##h## be flipped. I've seen this a few times and it seems a bit dubious.

If in doubt, ##\epsilon-\delta## is your best friend. Why don't you just try that?
 

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