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News Florida law lets anyone challenge what’s taught in science

  1. Jul 2, 2017 #1

    Evo

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    New Florida law lets any resident challenge what’s taught in science classes.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ht-in-science-classes/?utm_term=.0104dd426ae7

    I'm wondering if soon teaching actual science may become optional.
     
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  3. Jul 2, 2017 #2

    mfb

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    Oh great.
    Let's hope the "unbiased hearing officers" do a good job.
     
  4. Jul 2, 2017 #3

    Evo

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    I don't have much hope. The "theory" of creation?
     
  5. Jul 2, 2017 #4

    mfb

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    From a random parent, not from an "unbiased hearing officer".
     
  6. Jul 2, 2017 #5

    Evo

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    If they passed this law how "unbiased' do you think their appointees will be? I don't hold out much hope for the US mfb. :oldfrown:
     
  7. Jul 2, 2017 #6

    OmCheeto

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    I watched the latest sci-fi short, "Amendment 10/60", on the "Dust" youtube channel last night.
    This thread reminded me of it.
    They shot all the scientists.
    I used to enjoy dystopian stories.
    I don't much care for living in one.
     
  8. Jul 2, 2017 #7
    If you want religious teaching, then enrol your child in a religious school. Leave the state schools alone.
     
  9. Jul 2, 2017 #8

    BillTre

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    The "unbiased hearing officer" would most likely be picked by the local school board which the quote in the original post said would hire them.
    Thus, the hire of such a politically charged position would be picked by a variety of local groups, some good, some bad.

    On the other hand, this could be a way to challenge some other things that could use challenging, like weird history or science interpretations. Of course, doesn't mean the challenge would be successful (depends on the "unbiased hearing officer").
     
  10. Jul 2, 2017 #9

    fresh_42

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    Unbiased in connection with a political task, which I think it is, is a contradiction in itself.
     
  11. Jul 3, 2017 #10

    Borek

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  12. Jul 3, 2017 #11
    It does seem this is a definite conflict between separation of church and state. Does anybody know of any non religious group that supports creationism or is anti evolution? Might we expect this law to be challenged in the courts?

    But there may be legitimate issues to be addressed. e.g., there may be a definite concerns for parents about what literature, topics, views are discussed in schools . Parents want their children to heed their own views (as much as possible) and usually influence them on a daily basis in any event. But we do resent them being exposed to philosophies or world views that we do not approve or believe to be harmful . Teacher (like most of us) often have a tendency to present material that is biased, whether it is a lit teachers choice of authors/subject, or a history teacher's emphasis/interpretations on/of certain issues, or in the case of a poli-sci teacher's summer reading list of conservative/right-wing writers/pundits that was pulled by the Alabama school administration after complaints by parents.

    That said, parents cannot control all that our kid are exposed to when they leave the house especially with the internet opening up so much diversity in thought and view. Their job is really to help them navigate safely through the perils of our present day political/economic/social milieu. This means knowing the issues they face and teaching/recommending methods in, as best we can, avoiding those perils.

    We continually pass laws that promote what we complain so much about, government interference in our lives .
     
  13. Jul 3, 2017 #12

    Vanadium 50

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    Since this thread is clearly about politics and current events, does that mean that section will be re-opened? Or does it mean we should discuss in GD?
     
  14. Jul 3, 2017 #13

    mfb

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    See the rules for this forum:
    Political decisions about education and science were excluded in the recent rule change.
     
  15. Jul 3, 2017 #14

    jim hardy

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    Fanaticism of any flavor is IMHO mental illness.

    Fundamentalist Creationism kooks and ACLU radical kooks protesting Ten Commandment monuments in the town square are of the same ilk -
    Little Bigshot Wannabes.

     
  16. Jul 3, 2017 #15

    OmCheeto

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    :ok::thumbup::peacesign:

    "Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right...."
    Stealers Wheels - Stuck In The Middle With You, ≈1973​

    Not sure why I'm stuck on music today.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuck_in_the_Middle_with_You
    "Stuck in the Middle with You" (sometimes known as "Stuck in the Middle") is a song written by Gerry Rafferty and Joe Egan and originally performed by their band Stealers Wheel.

    I did not know that Gerry had a part in the creation of that song.
    No idea who Joe Egan is.

    ps. I was 14 years old in 1973, so I'm using that as an excuse for not knowing who Joe Egan is.
     
  17. Jul 4, 2017 #16

    Vanadium 50

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    As I understand it, the Florida Law is an attempt for a remedy for the lack of standing for any of its citizenry to sue. In the past, if someone thought the curriculum was inappropriate, they could sue only if they were a student, or a parent representing a student. Nobody else had standing. I couldn't, for example, lodge a suit claiming that my local school district was teaching that the earth was flat, even though I pay taxes and have an interest in a well-educated citizenry. The courts arguement is "take this up at the ballot box". (If I had a child in school, then I would have standing) This is an attempt to fix that.

    What's wrong with that?

    The argument I am hearing is that "the political process might return an outcome I don't like". Welcome to democracy.
     
  18. Jul 4, 2017 #17

    fresh_42

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    How is it democracy if a single person is assigned to decide about the legitimacy of a complaint? The question is, how this "unbiased" person will be determined. And what is more likely: that they will teach flat earth and receive an appeal or that they teach evolution and receive one? And how can scientific knowledge be subject to a political process, democratic or not?
     
  19. Jul 4, 2017 #18

    OmCheeto

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    hmmmm..... I'm sure you've heard the expression; "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

    Worst case scenario is that this will turn into a tit for tat war of several billion ideologies.

    Creationist parent; "I don't like evolution, so they shouldn't teach it."
    Evolutionist parent; "I don't like creationism, so they shouldn't teach it."

    Capitalist parent; "The social studies teacher has a copy of 'Pravda' in his classroom, so they shouldn't teach that."
    Communist parent: "The social studies teacher has a copy of 'The John Birch Society' in his classroom, so they shouldn't teach that."​

    continue ad absurdum, and....

    Future kids sit in the classroom for 8 hours in silence, staring at a blank whiteboard.​

    I say, let's teach everything!, as I'm still a big fan of the "7-Up" social experiment.
    And hence, it doesn't really matter what you try and teach young people, as they are products of their parents biases, and little you try and do, will change their minds, for the most part.
     
  20. Jul 4, 2017 #19

    jim hardy

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    i guess that's why we are a republic .

    BTW 7-Up is one of the most meaningful things i can remember ever seeing on TV.
     
  21. Jul 4, 2017 #20

    Vanadium 50

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    A. I should have said "Welcome to democratic republicanism and representative democracy." But is mouthful.
    B. This happens all the time - every Supreme Court 5-4 split and every bench trial. If this is a bad idea, it should have been a bad idea before this particular law.
    C. People who previously had no input into the decision-making process now have some. This seems to push in the direction of more democracy, not less.

    Under the old law, I couldn't complain about nonsense being taught in science class. Now I can. Is this not a good thing? As I said before, the concern seems to be that by opening up the process and making it more democratic that we will lose.
     
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