Fock spaces semantics and number of particles

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the semantics of Fock spaces and the concept of Hilbert spaces in the context of quantum mechanics, particularly focusing on the representation of single particles and the implications of particle statistics. Participants explore foundational questions regarding the definitions and properties of these mathematical structures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the definition of a Hilbert space for a single particle, seeking clarity on its basis and the meaning of its vectors.
  • Another participant emphasizes the necessity of defining the basis of the Hilbert space, noting that it should specify whether it describes spin, momentum, or position.
  • A different participant proposes a specific basis of vectors for describing a particle's position and queries about the corresponding Hilbert space.
  • One participant corrects an earlier claim about the structure of Fock space, stating that it is a quotient space that incorporates symmetry or antisymmetry for identical particles.
  • Another participant refines the definition of Fock space, indicating that it involves symmetrizing or anti-symmetrizing operations based on particle type.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the representation of single particle states, particularly regarding the notation |1> and its implications.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of Hilbert and Fock spaces, indicating that there is no consensus on certain foundational aspects of the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the need for clarity on the definitions and representations used, suggesting that assumptions about the basis and the nature of states may not be fully resolved.

TheBlackNinja
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
I was not formally introduced to this math, so I appreciate corrections but I'll give my impressions.

The fock space for a particle with space H is
(c, H, HxH, HxHxH, ... )

1: What is a hilbert space for a single particle? I believe know what a hilbert space is, but for 'a particle'.. what is the base of this space? what to its vectors mean?

2: Operaions on Direct sums of spaces are defined as parallel operations over vector of those spaces. If each position on a tuple does not have a single vector associated(or it has?), like a basis vector, what would mean in the fock space, for example, (0, 1 ,1 , 0 ..0..), (0, 2 ,1 , 0 ..0..), (0, 1 ,1 , 0 ..0..) or (0, 0.5 ,0 , 0 ..0..)

3: How would fock states be denoted as tuples of the fock space? like, would |2> be (0,0,1,0...) ?

4: What does it mean for a state to have a 'well defined number of particles'? that all except one coefficient on a fock tuple is non zero?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
TheBlackNinja said:
1: What is a hilbert space for a single particle? I believe know what a hilbert space is, but for 'a particle'.. what is the base of this space? what to its vectors mean?

You still have to define the basis: choose if your Hilbert space is describing spin or momentum or position. The phrase "Hilbert space for single particle" does not tell anything about the representation; it only says that we are describing just one particle (and not a system of several particles).
 
Ok, so let {|a>, |b>,|c>} be a base of vectors for describing position in space and time and |psi>=|b>+|c> be the wavefunction of a particle. What is the "particles Hilbert space" in this case?
 
The fock space for a particle with space H is (c, H, HxH, HxHxH, ... )
Not quite. Fock Space is a quotient space of what you have written. The symmetry/antisymmetry that goes with identical particles is built into the definition of Fock Space. Whereas in H ⊗ H, |1>|2> and |2>|1> are two distinct states, Fock Space contains one state which is the symmetric/antisymmetric linear combination of these two.
 
Ok, its (c, H, S(HxH), S(HxHxH), ... ) where S is a symmetrizing or anti-symmetrizing according to the particle type. Its impossible to edut.

This answer helps me(Lubos's)

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/30751/what-is-the-single-particle-hilbert-space

So the "Hilber space for a single particle" is the set of all states on my original space which describe a single particle. I still don't understand |1> for example - this vector alone describes all single particle states?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 61 ·
3
Replies
61
Views
7K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K