Focus on in-depth understanding of the Maths behind Physics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the importance of understanding the mathematics that underpins physics concepts, particularly for undergraduate students. Participants explore the balance between mathematical rigor and practical application in physics, with references to specific mathematical concepts like the Frenet-Serret equations and calculus.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the depth of mathematical understanding required for physics, suggesting that while it is necessary, there may be diminishing returns in some areas.
  • Another participant emphasizes that studying physics involves learning a new language, where understanding the mathematical principles is essential but may not need to be fully mastered at the outset.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that understanding a mathematical method involves following its proof step by step, which aids in retention and application.
  • A humorous analogy is presented, comparing the relationship between physics and mathematics to a provocative statement about sex and masturbation, implying a distinction in their nature.
  • One participant acknowledges the challenge of balancing the understanding of mathematics with physics, indicating a commitment to improving their mathematical understanding despite the anticipated difficulty.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the necessity of understanding mathematics in physics, but there is no consensus on the extent to which this understanding should be pursued or the best approach to achieve it. Multiple perspectives on the relationship between the two fields remain present.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the teaching methods of mathematics can vary significantly, which may affect how concepts are understood in the context of physics. There are also references to specific mathematical concepts not being covered in classes, which may influence students' learning experiences.

Carolus_Rex
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As a Junior year physics undergrad, how much should i focus on understanding the maths behind the physics i use. One one hand i believe that understanding maths behind the physics i use is necessary but sometimes specially in calc i feel that i am going in too much.
Simply speaking from your experience is it worth to go deep into the maths?

P.S. this is my first writing on physics forum, actually first time writing on a forum so i am sorry if the title seems off.

P.P.S. I have forgotten to give an example, For example Frenet-Serret Eqn, they haven't been taught in my class, though the principal normal is used heavily in my electrodynamics class.
 
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Carolus_Rex said:
As a Junior year physics undergrad, how much should i focus on understanding the maths behind the physics i use. One one hand i believe that understanding maths behind the physics i use is necessary but sometimes specially in calc i feel that i am going in too much.
Simply speaking from your experience is it worth to go deep into the maths?

P.S. this is my first writing on physics forum, actually first time writing on a forum so i am sorry if the title seems off.

P.P.S. I have forgotten to give an example, For example Frenet-Serret Eqn, they haven't been taught in my class, though the principal normal is used heavily in my electrodynamics class.
Hello and :welcome: !

I am sure that good physicists also have a good understanding of mathematics. But there are differences. The most different and least obvious thing is, that studying - probably any field, but here, too - is far more learning a new language than it is learning theorems. The same things can be expressed very differently, hence your question could be rephrased as: Will I have to learn both new languages?

Well, yes, in a way, but certainly not at the beginning. E.g., physics is all about frames. You need a coordinate system to measure something! Hence there will be coordinates of all kinds all over the place. Mathematicians normally hate coordinates. They distract from looking at the essentials.

You mentioned calculus. A subject which wouldn't come to mind first. It is pretty much the same in both fields; at least if it isn't taught the most possible abstract way in mathematics, which it usually isn't. I.e. knowing the mathematical principles in calculus is equally essential for physics and mathematics. Things change if we talk about abstract algebra or topology. Maybe it is better to ask this question on specific examples rather than in general. PF is a good place to do so.

You will automatically develop a balance between the two over the years.
 
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I consider a mathematical method understood once I've followed the proof for it step by step, noting the techniques involved. I find it helpful in holding the method in mind or, failing that, deriving it from more basic principles when needed.
 
"Physics is to math what sex is to masturbation"

-RF
 
fresh_42 said:
Hello and :welcome: !

I am sure that good physicists also have a good understanding of mathematics. But there are differences. The most different and least obvious thing is, that studying - probably any field, but here, too - is far more learning a new language than it is learning theorems. The same things can be expressed very differently, hence your question could be rephrased as: Will I have to learn both new languages?

Well, yes, in a way, but certainly not at the beginning. E.g., physics is all about frames. You need a coordinate system to measure something! Hence there will be coordinates of all kinds all over the place. Mathematicians normally hate coordinates. They distract from looking at the essentials.

You mentioned calculus. A subject which wouldn't come to mind first. It is pretty much the same in both fields; at least if it isn't taught the most possible abstract way in mathematics, which it usually isn't. I.e. knowing the mathematical principles in calculus is equally essential for physics and mathematics. Things change if we talk about abstract algebra or topology. Maybe it is better to ask this question on specific examples rather than in general. PF is a good place to do so.

You will automatically develop a balance between the two over the years.
Thank you. I will try to develop better understanding of the maths behind the physics. Though it will be both hard and time consuming. I hope in the end,it will be all worth it.
 

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