Force required to stop a given torque

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the force required to hold a pneumatic piston stationary during assembly, specifically in the context of preventing rotation while a torque is applied. Participants explore various mechanical considerations and approaches related to clamping and torque application.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the force needed to hold a piston in place against a torque of 50 Nm, questioning if the formula T-rfsin(theta) is applicable.
  • Another participant mentions using a pneumatic piston to exert the necessary force.
  • Some participants assert that torque cannot be applied to a piston, only linear force, and request clarification on the mechanism involved.
  • A participant explains the context of assembling an oil pump, detailing how the piston is clamped pneumatically to prevent rotation while components are tightened with a torque wrench.
  • Concerns are raised about the lubrication of the piston-clamp interface, with one participant suggesting that the coefficient of friction should be determined experimentally.
  • Another participant states that the tangential force required to stop the piston from rotating is equal to the applied torque divided by the piston radius, emphasizing the need for the coefficient of friction to calculate clamping force.
  • Some participants propose alternative methods to prevent rotation, such as using a hollow gudgeon pin or internal tooling, rather than external clamping.
  • One participant mentions the challenges of creating a universal fixture for various piston designs, noting that not all pistons have a through hole for clamping.
  • Concerns about maintaining the external finish of the piston are discussed, with suggestions for using adapter pins for different sizes to avoid damage.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of torque to the piston and the best methods for clamping it without causing damage. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing approaches and considerations presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the need for specific coefficients of friction, which are suggested to be determined experimentally, and the varying dimensions of piston holes complicating the clamping process.

bijoy Thomas
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Hi Guys,
I am am trying to find out the force required to hold a piston in its place without rotating during an assembly process. The torque applied on the piston is nearly 50 Nm and the wrench has a length of 250mm. Would T-rfsin(theta) solve my issue? or is there something else I would have to take into account. Thanks.
 
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I am using a pneumatic piston to exert the force
 
You can't apply torque to a piston, only linear force. And what is theta?

Can you provide a sketch of the mechanism? This migh be a standard linkage problem and your approach might be correct but I can't tell.
 
Last edited:
russ_watters said:
You can't apply torque to a piston, only linear force. And what is theta?

Can you provide a sketch of the mechanism? This migh be a standard linkage problem and your approach might be correct but I can't tell.
Hi russ,
Thank you for the reply. I am just working on the process of assembling an oil pump that has a piston moving up and down in it. However the torque that i have mentioned here is not regarding the funtionality of the pump but on how the pump is actually manufactured/assembled.

In the process we pneumaticaly clamp the piston on its O.D into an assembly fixture using a rubber jaw. We do this so that we could tighten some other components onto the piston top at a certain torque using a torque wrench while the pneumatic clamp holds the piston stationary.
I need to know what amnt of force is required to hold the O.D of the piston in the fixture without rotating when using the torque wrench or in other words the pneumatic clamping force required to overcome the rotation of the piston at a certain torque during tightening of components above the piston.
 
Is the piston to clamp surface lubricated or dry? Sound like you will likely need the coefficient of friction between the piston and the clamp, and thatis something best determined experimentally.
 
The torque required to stop the piston rotating is the same as the applied torque (call it T). If fitting is being bolted to the centre of the piston and the piston was of radius r then the tangential force required on the circumference of the piston is T/r. To find the clamping force you need the coefficient of friction as Dr.D said.
 
Is the gudgeon pin hollow? Could you put something through it to stop the piston rotating rather than clamp it from the outside?

If the piston is a casting perhaps cast in something on the inside and make a tool that mates with it so that the force is on the inside of the piston rather than the critical outside surface.
 
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bijoy Thomas said:
Hi russ,
Thank you for the reply. I am just working on the process of assembling an oil pump that has a piston moving up and down in it. However the torque that i have mentioned here is not regarding the funtionality of the pump but on how the pump is actually manufactured/assembled.

In the process we pneumaticaly clamp the piston on its O.D into an assembly fixture using a rubber jaw. We do this so that we could tighten some other components onto the piston top at a certain torque using a torque wrench while the pneumatic clamp holds the piston stationary.
I need to know what amnt of force is required to hold the O.D of the piston in the fixture without rotating when using the torque wrench or in other words the pneumatic clamping force required to overcome the rotation of the piston at a certain torque during tightening of components above the piston.
Dr.D said:
Is the piston to clamp surface lubricated or dry? Sound like you will likely need the coefficient of friction between the piston and the clamp, and thatis something best determined experimentally.
[quote fixed by mod]

Hi Dr. D,
The piston is anodized on the outer surface and is not lubricated... however having a smooth surface finish makes it critical to hold the piston just enough without damaging the surface.
 

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CWatters said:
Is the gudgeon pin hollow? Could you put something through it to stop the piston rotating rather than clamp it from the outside?

If the piston is a casting perhaps cast in something on the inside and make a tool that mates with it so that the force is on the inside of the piston rather than the critical outside surface.

Hi CWatters,
We used to clamp the piston using a through pin since there is a hole but we are in the process of making a universal fixture that fits all our pistons of different pump variants and not all of them have a through hole and moreover the dimensions of hole vary making it hard to clamp withput using an adapter pin for our fixtures
 
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bijoy Thomas said:
We used to clamp the piston using a through pin since there is a hole but we are in the process of making a universal fixture that fits all our pistons of different pump variants and not all of them have a through hole and moreover the dimensions of hole vary making it hard to clamp withput using an adapter pin for our fixtures

If the external finish is critical, as it appears to be, then an adapter pin for each size piston seems like a far better solution. In any event, you are simply trading off one problem for another.
 
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