Freewill - the nature of our birth

[Dezepar]

Originally Posted by Kerrie

yes, the quality of my life would decrease,

Originally Posted by olde drunk

i submit that you can exist alone,

My first point:
At what point during life quality reduction does it fall outside the parameters of human defined living/existence? For example: A permanently comatose person with reduction to vital mechanical, and basic motor skills is by strict definition, living. However the subject's awareness of its existence is null. (Speculation of course) Although an extreme example, it can apply to milder circumstances that might be associated with complete interactive deprivation as well. Secondly, I offer the notion that the quality of your life would continue to decrease until it reduced to zero. (Physical beings or otherwise, which would ultimately require the concept of existence to be redefined.) Therefore, number 1, not maintaining the balance normally associated with the concept of living, and 2, inevitable non-existence, which is clearly not continuing to exist. I tend to believe that interaction is a vital component of the basic human survival pack. If I've assumed your definition of "existence" incorrectly Kerrie, please guide me.
olde drunk, for this train of thought, try accepting the removal of others as a constant or unchangeable property and then apply your above quoted point of view to it. (Realizing of course that your belief is rooted in you being in the drivers seat of your existence.)

 

[olde drunk]

First, Dezepar, your points are valid that the quality of life would be very poor if we were alone. Please bear in mind that it is my suspicion that we (our spiritual selves) saw an opportunity for a new or different experience in the physical world and chose it enmasse. Now, within that framework we are each attending to a personal agenda. I like to say that we are in this world "alone, together OR together, alone". Meaning that we are in the 'drivers seat' for our personal experience and choose to do it with others; we help them and they help us.

Secondly, perhaps a little historical information will help understand my position. Being born into rather dire circumstances (who wasn't after the great depression, so no big deal) with strong religious influences, I was greatly disappointed with the way my life had gone for the first 25-26 years. I was big into sci-fi and stumbled onto books about Edgar Cayce. This was a very religious man that was clairvoyant . That was an introduction into reincarnation.

Books like The Source by Michener(sp?), Don Juan by Castenada followed. It was also the dawning of the age of aquarius LOL. So, trying to understand how my life wasn't going the way i wanted, I sought an explanation that fit what had happened. I use all the new information and shuffled the deck.

Without time, all lives are simultaneous. So, really reincarnation isn't that far fetched. But, to understand where I am at a given point in this life I need to look at past decisions. Once started, you get a glimmer of understanding AND need to decide, how far back does this go? Well, happy to say, when I accepted the responsibility for the conditions of my birth, everything fell into place. I had found my personal holy grail. Again, this was not overnight. After 35-40 years of exploration, I understand the first 25 years.

Now, this does not enable me to predict my future. But, it does give much more power to decide which future to experience. Maybe an oriental monk could explain this power after years of meditation. i did not and do not have time or inclination for that type of inner exploration. I enjoy too many of our vices.

So, let's accept who and what we are (and our neighbors) with the knowledge that we will make a better today.

Oh, Royce, I love buddhism. A very peaceful way. Unfortunately, with my western style of living, I am unable to integrate it's disciplines into my life. There is a lot there and I do meditate and think about many of their insights. As for my face prior to birth? I never tried. I'll get back to ya.

Maybe, Dezepar should start a separate thread on being alone. Hey, there are all those aliens and spirits that walk with us daily. I guess we can never be truly alone.

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[Royce]

Oh, Royce, I love buddhism. A very peaceful way. Unfortunately, with my western style of living, I am unable to integrate it's disciplines into my life. There is a lot there and I do meditate and think about many of their insights. As for my face prior to birth? I never tried. I'll get back to ya.
olde drunk

I too am a westerner of German decent. You don't need to integrate it's disciplines into your life only it's thinking into your mind; bt, from what I have read of yours posts, you already have.

As to being alone, we can never be truly alone either physically or spiritually.
Biologically life cannot and does not exist alone but must exist in an ecology that allows and supportsa life, such as a biosphere as is earth. It takes many different organisms to sustain life for one organism such as ourselves. Spiritually, we are never nor can we ever be alone as we are all part of the One. If we ever think that we are alone it is simply an illusion. We can delude ourselves temporarily into thinking that we are alone and are alone responsible and self relient for our existence; but this is just illusion and denial. The old adage that no man is an island is absolutely true no matter how you may interpret it.

 

[Dezepar]

Originally Posted by Royce

As to being alone, we can never be truly alone either physically or spiritually.
Biologically life cannot and does not exist alone but must exist in an ecology that allows and supportsa life, such as a biosphere as is earth. It takes many different organisms to sustain life for one organism such as ourselves. Spiritually, we are never nor can we ever be alone as we are all part of the One. If we ever think that we are alone it is simply an illusion. We can delude ourselves temporarily into thinking that we are alone and are alone responsible and self relient for our existence; but this is just illusion and denial. The old adage that no man is an island is absolutely true no matter how you may interpret it.

You've caputured my convoluted point perfectly Royce. I couldn't agree more.

 

[Royce]

You've caputured my convoluted point perfectly Royce. I couldn't agree more.

Glad I could help and that we agree. This in itself is unusual, that anyone here at PF finds someone that they agree with.

 

[dschouten]

loseyourname, good point, however, how can a fetus have any sort of "free will" when they are dependent upon another being to survive?

Who isn't dependant up another being to survive? I have yet to find an autonomous being on this planet.