Freewill - the nature of our birth

[olde drunk]

I hope that I have chosen the proper forum for this thread.

In other threads I have stated that within freewill we chose our birth and it’s environments. Now, I would like to offer a small insight, which may make this concept more acceptable.

I am sure that in pre-adolescence and adolescence (when we want to be and look cool to our peers) we all stood before the mirror and complained about this and that flaw. “Why was I born with such ugly hair”?

Now, if I say that I chose my body-type and it’s attributes before birth, I completely change the dynamics of the situation. I no longer blame god or my parents (wrong genes for this time period, lol). I accept responsibility for my situation, which leads to accepting self. The thought process is, ‘ok, what did I want to learn – experience by not having socially acceptable hair’?

Aren’t psychiatrists and psychologists looking for ways to have their clients ‘accept themselves’? With this small shift of perspective, we can understand that we are, what we are supposed to be. We can accept ourselves AND then, love ourselves. We can not be contributing to society if we do not love our neighbor. We can not love our neighbor, if we do not, first love ourselves.

We chose our parents, with their agreement, and the time, place and manner of our birth for a personal spiritual reason. While we have freewill, we also agree to the rules of physicality prior to birth.

Let us know what you think, after you look back and change you view of an unwanted event or experience.

Love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[Moonrat]

Let us know what you think, after you look back and change you view of an unwanted event or experience.

Well, olde drunk, you know I likes yer style, but the whole free will concept falls apart when looked at objectivly..

Now, I do not say there is no free will, I say there is a distinction between one's free or interpretative will and true will...

I mean, Olde Drunke, we cannot free will away that which is true will. And by true will, I mean our collective wills, like, we grow from child into adult, or we have brown eyes, or we want food, we want to mate, those kind of things...

these are not 'free', they cannot be 'free willed' away. they are 'true will' with many different interpretations...free will is subjective, true will is objective..

your proposition only works if one accepts it. true will works if we accept it or not.

we have a very limited realm of what can happen inside of free will. this free will can expand the more society learns to honor individual soverineity and accept the true will discovered by methods of science..

 

[loseyourname]

I still have to wonder what exactly aborted fetuses and miscarriages wanted from their lives if they indeed chose their fate.

 

[Kerrie]

loseyourname, good point, however, how can a fetus have any sort of "free will" when they are dependent upon another being to survive?

 

[olde drunk]

Well, olde drunk, you know I likes yer style, but the whole free will concept falls apart when looked at objectivly..

Now, I do not say there is no free will, I say there is a distinction between one's free or interpretative will and true will...

I mean, Olde Drunke, we cannot free will away that which is true will. And by true will, I mean our collective wills, like, we grow from child into adult, or we have brown eyes, or we want food, we want to mate, those kind of things...

these are not 'free', they cannot be 'free willed' away. they are 'true will' with many different interpretations...free will is subjective, true will is objective..

your proposition only works if one accepts it. true will works if we accept it or not.

we have a very limited realm of what can happen inside of free will. this free will can expand the more society learns to honor individual soverineity and accept the true will discovered by methods of science..

i am not sure i understand your differentiation. i did say at the end that upon entering into this world we agree to it's laws. also, by selecting our parents we select the physical attributes we want for our life.

even tho we want to eat, mate, etc. we are still free to choose hunger or celibacy (lol).

please expand your definition of 'true will'. IMHO, all will is subjective because it must pass thru my filters and opinions. whether i bend to science or not is a matter of my willingness to accept or reject any finding. also, how can science measure will and define it's qualities??

agreeing to social mores and laws, is still a matter of choice. OR, do i miss your point?

love & peace,
olde drunk

 

[BoulderHead]

In other threads I have stated that within freewill we chose our birth and it’s environments.

I don’t recall much prior to my birth. In fact, I don’t recall anything at all. For me there exists no compelling reason to believe I made a conscious decision. To agree with you on this matter would require acceptance of too great an assumption.
Anyway, what do you mean by environment of birth?

Now, I would like to offer a small insight, which may make this concept more acceptable.

To be honest, I did not see insight making the concept more acceptable. This is because the word ‘acceptable’, to me, equates more to validation for holding the view than demonstration of some possible benefit gained after the fact.

 

[olde drunk]

I still have to wonder what exactly aborted fetuses and miscarriages wanted from their lives if they indeed chose their fate.

please bear in mind that our shared reality is agreed to by all participants in the reality beyond our physical world.

how do we know when a fetus is a conscious being? let's not get lost in all the debates surrounding the abortion issue.

so, an agreement has been made for little drunk to born. during the pregnancy, the parents activate a different time - probability line that would not serve purpose little drunk wanted. so he simply decides to not be born. no harm, no foul. OR, the parents wanted to work out something within their relationship that required a miscarriage.

our shared reality is a co-operative effort.

love & peace,
olde drunk

 

[olde drunk]

I don’t recall much prior to my birth. In fact, I don’t recall anything at all. For me there exists no compelling reason to believe I made a conscious decision. To agree with you on this matter would require acceptance of too great an assumption.
Anyway, what do you mean by environment of birth?

To be honest, I did not see insight making the concept more acceptable. This is because the word ‘acceptable’, to me, equates more to validation for holding the view than demonstration of some possible benefit gained after the fact.

Well 'scientists' disagree on the validity of age regression thru hypnosis. So what do we do?? how do we reconcile dissenting views? IMHO, take the conclusion that expands, rather than limits, my experience. Try looking at your reality with this change for awhile, if it works, great. If not, forget- a - bout - it !

While you do not remember anything prior to birth, can you remember a time when you didn't exist?

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[theriddler876]

Accept what you cannot change, and change what you cannot accept

 

[omin]

I am a determinist. Your language is interesting.

First, here is my simple explanation for determinism. I watch my self make what is called decision in two ways. The first is spur of the moment decision. I make a decision without any cause. What really happens is that I have forgotten or am unaware of what is the cause of the decision I watched happen. The second is I am watching my mind use of memories to reason. I watch my determined decisions like I watch the physics of a game of pool, only it's going on in my head, and the players are Mr. Objective the Environment and Mr. Subjective the circumstantial position of brain cells and location of memories.

Looking back on changing things. I blame my parents. They blame their parents. So on. Blame has negative connotation, so I'll take the essential from it. It's cause. I was formed by them. They caused me. Did they choose? No. They watch everything happen, just like I do.

Although, there may be somethings I may blame them for, I think that's what makes humans great. Humans have evolved, because they blamed there parents continually for things that were unfair. If it weren't for our continual correction over time, humans would have never evolved. We're big time blamers, because we're determined to correct. Just watch yourself try harder. There is nothing we can do about it. Did we choose to evolve? No. We're just in the right place at the right time, just like those thoughts that become decisions.

So, I think I can blame in a positive way. We all have our responsibilites. We have to do better than they did. But, we're determined. Who would purposely do something wrong, when they truly understood what was right? That would be stupid. If you really know what was right, you don't do wrong. You can't choose to be stupid when your smart.

Choice means to watch physics.

 

[olde drunk]

I am a determinist. Your language is interesting.

First, here is my simple explanation for determinism. I watch my self make what is called decision in two ways. The first is spur of the moment decision. I make a decision without any cause. What really happens is that I have forgotten or am unaware of what is the cause of the decision I watched happen. The second is I am watching my mind use of memories to reason. I watch my determined decisions like I watch the physics of a game of pool, only it's going on in my head, and the players are Mr. Objective the Environment and Mr. Subjective the circumstantial position of brain cells and location of memories.

Looking back on changing things. I blame my parents. They blame their parents. So on. Blame has negative connotation, so I'll take the essential from it. It's cause. I was formed by them. They caused me. Did they choose? No. They watch everything happen, just like I do.

Although, there may be somethings I may blame them for, I think that's what makes humans great. Humans have evolved, because they blamed there parents continually for things that were unfair. If it weren't for our continual correction over time, humans would have never evolved. We're big time blamers, because we're determined to correct. Just watch yourself try harder. There is nothing we can do about it. Did we choose to evolve? No. We're just in the right place at the right time, just like those thoughts that become decisions.

So, I think I can blame in a positive way. We all have our responsibilites. We have to do better than they did. But, we're determined. Who would purposely do something wrong, when they truly understood what was right? That would be stupid. If you really know what was right, you don't do wrong. You can't choose to be stupid when your smart.

Choice means to watch physics.

IF it is all pre-programmed, why bother? this confuses me. no matter what i do, it was meant to be?? how? it is illogical for me and i would be depressed to believe i was trapped in a bio-chem-physics reality. this is too limiting! also, each decision is not limited to 2 options.

blame, what a waste of energy! who cares what someone else did??

ok, now i see the hang-up! you do not want to be responsible! you are at the mercy of what has been done to you and what has been chosen for you, by the sciences. no matter what, if you decide on a particular lover, and the raltionship fails, it was that damn, nasty chemical reaction. if the lover gets killed, it's the law of physics.

sorry, for me, it has been extremely liberating to accept the idea that i have chosen all aspects of my life (the good, bad & ugly). it is enpowering! from that perspective i can change anything and everything that i don't like. again, within the scientific rules we accepted prior to birth.

i choose to be my own master. even wrong decisions were necessary for my personal evolution. ah, you say? "it is predetermined!" NO! there are an infnite number of ways to evolve. i will choose a path or manner that is unique to me. learning about physics or truth or life can only be learned through experience. i choose to seek my path, not something chosen for me.

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[selfAdjoint]

IF it is all pre-programmed, why bother? this confuses me. no matter what i do, it was meant to be?? how? it is illogical for me and i would be depressed to believe i was trapped in a bio-chem-physics reality. this is too limiting! also, each decision is not limited to 2 options.

blame, what a waste of energy! who cares what someone else did??

ok, now i see the hang-up! you do not want to be responsible! you are at the mercy of what has been done to you and what has been chosen for you, by the sciences. no matter what, if you decide on a particular lover, and the raltionship fails, it was that damn, nasty chemical reaction. if the lover gets killed, it's the law of physics.

sorry, for me, it has been extremely liberating to accept the idea that i have chosen all aspects of my life (the good, bad & ugly). it is enpowering! from that perspective i can change anything and everything that i don't like. again, within the scientific rules we accepted prior to birth.

i choose to be my own master. even wrong decisions were necessary for my personal evolution. ah, you say? "it is predetermined!" NO! there are an infnite number of ways to evolve. i will choose a path or manner that is unique to me. learning about physics or truth or life can only be learned through experience. i choose to seek my path, not something chosen for me.

love&peace,
olde drunk

There was a young man who said Damn!
It's borne in upon me that I am
An engine which moves
In determinate grooves
I'm not even a bus! I'm a tram!

 

[Siv]

IF it is all pre-programmed, why bother? this confuses me. no matter what i do, it was meant to be?? how? it is illogical for me and i would be depressed to believe i was trapped in a bio-chem-physics reality. this is too limiting! also, each decision is not limited to 2 options.

Well, pre-programmed does not mean that we're like clockwork ... we're not.
And we do make choices and decisions ... so to that extent, we do have free-will.

However, our decisions are not totally random or "free". They are constrained by a lot of things. One can, with enough knowledge, predict a probability curve of responses, for eg. So yes, to that extent, our behaviour is predetermined.

That does not mean that we don't hold anyone responsible for their actions. Of course we do. Because holding them responsible for their actions and consequences becomes, by itself, a parameter of their environment, which would affect their behaviour.

We chose our parents, with their agreement, and the time, place and manner of our birth for a personal spiritual reason. While we have freewill, we also agree to the rules of physicality prior to birth.

Before conception, we are a sperm and an ova. Neither of which has the apparatus to "choose its parents, the time, place and manner of birth".

 

[Mentat]

loseyourname, good point, however, how can a fetus have any sort of "free will" when they are dependent upon another being to survive?

Yet are you not also dependent on many other beings, to continue your existence?

 

[olde drunk]

Well, pre-programmed does not mean that we're like clockwork ... we're not.
And we do make choices and decisions ... so to that extent, we do have free-will.

However, our decisions are not totally random or "free". They are constrained by a lot of things. One can, with enough knowledge, predict a probability curve of responses, for eg. So yes, to that extent, our behaviour is predetermined.

That does not mean that we don't hold anyone responsible for their actions. Of course we do. Because holding them responsible for their actions and consequences becomes, by itself, a parameter of their environment, which would affect their behaviour.

Before conception, we are a sperm and an ova. Neither of which has the apparatus to "choose its parents, the time, place and manner of birth".

sorry, i was NOT a sperm and ova prior to birth. I BELIEVE that i am a spiritual being that chose to have my consciousness enter the fetus that resulted from the fertilization.

do you BELIEVE that you are ONLY your body? isn't your MIND greater that your brain?? why limit your thinking about your whole being??

all i am suggesting is that we look at our experiences from a different angle. no one can really prove anything about consciousness, it can only be experienced. using this perspective i have seen (understood the experiences) how i have manipulated my reality and i find that helps lead a better life.

try it. what have you got to lose?? being responsible is enpowering!

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[selfAdjoint]

Let's cut to the chase; consider a zygote, a single fertilized new cell. The Catholic church says it's a person, capable of sin. But I can't see how a single cell can have free will; this is close to the manufactured bacteria that is the goal of several current research teams (admittedly there's an order of magnitude or more in size and complexity between a bacterial cell and a eukayotic one). Leaving out theories where "everything is conscious" how can this almost obviously mechanical thing have free will?

 

[loseyourname]

What drunk seems to be saying isn't that the cell itself has any free will, but rather that the cell's spirit self that will eventually inhabit the fully grown human that the cell will become is capable of controlling the circumstances of the cell's and eventual human's life.

 

[kcballer21]

Olde drunk

We chose our parents, with their agreement, and the time, place and manner of our birth for a personal spiritual reason. While we have freewill, we also agree to the rules of physicality prior to birth.

I am having severe trouble trying to understand this. I must be confused in a semantic way. When you say "we chose our parents" do you mean we had others to choose from? Are our spirit selves able to recall this agreement but keep it a secret from our conscious selves. I think a lot of people out there might feel as if their spirit made a pretty crappy choice and left them to deal with it. Do you know why you chose the way you did? Are you saying that freewill does not exist in our physical universe but it does exist for our spirit?

 

[olde drunk]

Let's cut to the chase; consider a zygote, a single fertilized new cell. The Catholic church says it's a person, capable of sin. But I can't see how a single cell can have free will; this is close to the manufactured bacteria that is the goal of several current research teams (admittedly there's an order of magnitude or more in size and complexity between a bacterial cell and a eukayotic one). Leaving out theories where "everything is conscious" how can this almost obviously mechanical thing have free will?

let's exclude the consciousness of our cells; the cells of my heart, brain, etc have their consciousness and do their job well. I am not the cells of my body. the cells, within their consciousness, agree to cooperate so that i have a physical body. i am, also, NOT my body.

i am saying, that MY consciousness chooses to enter the new body within an agreement with the parents. All three agree in advance that they will share an experience; each for their own reason.

believe it or not, when you begin to look at experience from this perspective, you will lose your belief in sin. there is no sin. granted, there are better ways to live a life, but it is a subjective 'better'.

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[olde drunk]

Olde drunk

I am having severe trouble trying to understand this. I must be confused in a semantic way. When you say "we chose our parents" do you mean we had others to choose from? Are our spirit selves able to recall this agreement but keep it a secret from our conscious selves. I think a lot of people out there might feel as if their spirit made a pretty crappy choice and left them to deal with it. Do you know why you chose the way you did? Are you saying that freewill does not exist in our physical universe but it does exist for our spirit?

i am saying, hooray for freewill.

see my prior post. we and our parents agreed to share a life experience.

no, i do not recall making the decision. Very interesting, though, i had a very crappy childhood and was confused and, to a degree, angry. it was hell after my father abandoned the family. Within catholicism we are told to have faith, god has a reason. as long as the 'cause' was external, i was at the mercy of god and/or the whims of people in higher positions.

about 40 years ago i began thinking that this 'have faith' idea was nonsense. it all began to make sense, to me, when i looked at the trials and tribulations from the perspective that i wanted to experience poverty, abuse, etc. Those experiences influenced my initiative, imagination and drive to go beyond, what appeared to be limitations.

please understand, i do not believe that I am separate from my spirit. I (the total me) chose my parents. Isn't it easier to forgive them of whatever failings they have because you wanted to experience a reality with parents that had those particular flaws? i never had a catch with my father, i never said no to my son (yeah i cry every time i see the end of 'field of dreams'). do you see how we operate on many levels?

lastly, from this perspective we can also 'lighten' the nature of our lives. once you put yourself in charge, life becomes a game. we lose any sense of victimhood or powerlessness.

as i have said, just think about it. You might even change your past events with this different view. If you need an ecclesiastical or academic authority to understand life, this won't work.

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[omin]

There can only be one.

Decision.

 

[olde drunk]

There can only be one.

Decision.

I agree! you are the only authority for yourself! no one or nothing can teach you your truth. they can provide assistance, because truth can only be experienced.

love&peace
olde drunk

 

[Siv]

sorry, i was NOT a sperm and ova prior to birth. I BELIEVE that i am a spiritual being that chose to have my consciousness enter the fetus that resulted from the fertilization.

Cant make out if you're joking or serious (esp with that login name :uhh: ), but let me assume that you are indeed serious about this.
You are of course free to believe whatever you want to believe. But there is no (objective) evidence to support this belief.

do you BELIEVE that you are ONLY your body? isn't your MIND greater that your brain?? why limit your thinking about your whole being??

Er ... don't know about you, but my body includes a brain. But I don't see what's "only" about that. My body and brain are wonderfully complicated things. But there's nothing magical or mysterious about them. Yes, there are many things we still have to learn, but we know an awful lot more than we did even a few decades back.

 

[olde drunk]

Siv:

I am NOT joking.

We existed before our birth and we will exist after our death. In order to make this belief sensible, it was necessary to figure out how all the aspects of our physical life came together in a logical sequence.

Again, it is necessary to question or ignore traditional religious lore. If I am eternal I must exist on some level beyond the physical = spiritual.

now, my spiritual self is out there and somehow entered the physical world. As I said earlier, once you accept complete responsibility for your experience you realize why so many events happened. this is personal proof, for me, that i am more than my physical presence and that i create all of my reality.

being a mini-me type god, i choose my experiences. with that understanding, i am enpowered with the tools for change. most doctors will agree that only the patient has the power to heal. using that magical brain and body with the a feeling of power will heal and prevent illness.

this does sound off the wall and is subject to ridicule. no problem! i will tell you tho, once you start to see your world in these terms you will never be the same. you can not be a victim, you can not cop out that your parents, spouse, boss or society caused you to be the way you are.

try it! you'll like it!


love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[Kerrie]

Yet are you not also dependent on many other beings, to continue your existence?

how am i dependent on other beings for exitence? i may depend on my employer to provide me with a job for money, but i have the freewill to earn my own money by whatever means necessary-whether it be legal or not...i may depend on others to build me a home, however, i have the freewill to build or live where i want-regardless if it is safe or not...

i really agree with this:

once you accept complete responsibility for your experience you realize why so many events happened...i choose my experiences. with that understanding, i am enpowered with the tools for change.

so many people are slaves to their biology and forget that our greatest power we have is to choose...choices might not always be what we want, but we can choose...

 

[Overdose]

took about 15 posts for everyone to work out that olde drunk meant 'spiritual choice'.
You people are slow at times... : p

 

[Dezepar]

Must be making a good 'physical living' to afford scientology :)...

 

[Siv]

Siv:

I am NOT joking.

We existed before our birth and we will exist after our death. In order to make this belief sensible, it was necessary to figure out how all the aspects of our physical life came together in a logical sequence.

Again, it is necessary to question or ignore traditional religious lore. If I am eternal I must exist on some level beyond the physical = spiritual.

now, my spiritual self is out there and somehow entered the physical world. As I said earlier, once you accept complete responsibility for your experience you realize why so many events happened. this is personal proof, for me, that i am more than my physical presence and that i create all of my reality.

being a mini-me type god, i choose my experiences. with that understanding, i am enpowered with the tools for change. most doctors will agree that only the patient has the power to heal. using that magical brain and body with the a feeling of power will heal and prevent illness.

this does sound off the wall and is subject to ridicule. no problem! i will tell you tho, once you start to see your world in these terms you will never be the same. you can not be a victim, you can not cop out that your parents, spouse, boss or society caused you to be the way you are.

try it! you'll like it!

:rofl:

took about 15 posts for everyone to work out that olde drunk meant 'spiritual choice'.
You people are slow at times... : p

Yup. Wasted some time.
But not much, really.

 

[Zantra]

Hmmm.. At first I thought this was about free will/determinism.. Then you used the word "spiritualism"...

In a sense, pure free will does not exist. Or at least it's conditional. If we have free choice, it's only the the extent that we have control over the environment and other factors around us. And life is based on interaction. Since it's impossible to exist without interacting with our environment, it's impossible to have complete control over everything, save ourselves. So in a sense, true free will does not exist.

Just a random thought...

 

[olde drunk]

i am proud to admit that i am not a follower of any religion or cult. i base my philosophy on many, many different ideas; from varied sources.

From there, I have built a working model of what i believe to be the nature of our reality. it is a work in progress and subject to constant change. i did not say that this is 'the answer' to anything.

this works for me, and i suspect that if more people understood their personal power we would be a lot happier. we experience what we choose to experience, it is not thrust upon us at birth and we are not the victims of our nature and nurture. they do have their influences, it is up to us to accept, reject or modify the affect.

as of today, no other philosophy answers all my questions. this is how i came to understand my role in the universe and manipulate my reality. not everyone likes chocolate ice cream or cigarettes; to each his own.

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[Dezepar]

You are free to draw a triangle. Provided you give it three sides.

Originally Posted by Kerrie
how am i dependent on other beings for exitence? i may depend on my employer to provide me with a job for money, but i have the freewill to earn my own money by whatever means necessary-whether it be legal or not...i may depend on others to build me a home, however, i have the freewill to build or live where i want-regardless if it is safe or not...

I may have a low post count, but I've been around for quite a while and have read quite a few of your posts Kerrie. And I agree with them the majority of the time. But Mentat hit it square on the head.

Originally Posted by Mentat
Yet are you not also dependent on many other beings, to continue your existence?

With all due respect, I wasn't impressed with this thought.
Just try to remove all "others" for even 12 hours. Watch the quality of life rapidly decend. If not cease.

 

[olde drunk]

Dezepar - if i may?

i submit that you can exist alone, if you so chose. the fact that it would be uncomfortable or distasteful would lead you to change your decision.

i often wonder if there are 'lost souls' that have chosen to be alone until they were able to sort out their particular problems. are the highly psychotic individuals 'lost souls'? have they chosen to be alone?

no answers, just different perspective.

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[Kerrie]

I may have a low post count, but I've been around for quite a while and have read quite a few of your posts Kerrie. And I agree with them the majority of the time. But Mentat hit it square on the head.

Originally Posted by Mentat
Yet are you not also dependent on many other beings, to continue your existence?

With all due respect, I wasn't impressed with this thought.
Just try to remove all "others" for even 12 hours. Watch the quality of life rapidly decend. If not cease.

yes, the quality of my life would decrease, no argument there because humanity in general depends on society in modern times to lead a better quality of life...mentat asked if i am dependent on other beings to continue my existence, and my answer is no, not ultimately, however-yes to live comfortably. if mentat asked me if i was dependent on others to have existed, i would have to answer yes, as my mother and father were needed in order for me to have been conceived

 

[Dayle Record]

Try this.

The egg and the sperm, are two elaborate software programs that interact, and create a newer version, that has both good and faulty attributes of both of the old programs. When the new hardware is delivered, the two older flesh hardware programs interact with the new, and try to awaken in it the better parts of their old programming, that is if they are good at that sort of thing.
The aims of these flesh machines are as varied as the causes for sharing software.

The new hardware is very computer support dependent for sometime. In that era of vulnerability it must interact with the two older programs, until it is able to establish an independent power source for its stand alone system.

By this time, the OS of the new product is a total mishmash of old programs that need to be clean sweeped periodically to leave the new equipment with enough operating space to negotiate on the internet and take on newer software that it chooses, to facilitate. These internal processes run in quiet mode outside the understanding of the older hardware; whose old OS's are so full of files they have little room for new data that is not significant to their operations.

Despite constant defragging attempts by the older versions, the new hardware, finds empty spots in its own programming, and seeks new bits to fill them from fresh sources, depending on the fit of the new data, and its usefulness. The new OS forms and protects its files, and seeks preferred host sites, for queries and data needs.

It becomes more and more apparent to the new system, as time goes on, that the old host systems are too simple, and full of useless data, for the current time frame. Those old systems cling to outdated programs, because they do not have the ram needed to run the new stuff. Pretty soon the new hardware is hanging out in internet cafés and checking out the software on that new hardware it has just met, and then it makes the leap to a full time connection elsewhere.

It only has free will in this context. It can only choose from what is there to be chosen from, vs the factory of origin. There are a lot of choices but until it drops the cable and goes with full WiFi, it is limited, and even with WiFi, it still has to deal with hardware issues. The nature of the hardware, and its working environment, determines the ultimate potential of the system.

 

[Royce]

Olde drunk, needless to say you are not the first or only one to think or believe or know this truth. I read some time ago that one of the questions that a Buddhist master asks of his students is;"Have you seen, do you know your face before you where born." I have tried but not yet succeeded in seeing my true face before I was born.

I have heard or read many others that say that we choose our parents and
our life before we are born in this life. I can't say that I have experienced it personally nor do I remember it; but, I do believe, if not know, it to be true.

John Bradshaw alluded to something like this too. The fact that he too was/is an old drunk, alcoholic, baffled him at first until he realized that he had to experience that to enable him to know the truth about families, especially about dysfunctional families. So his being a drunk was a choice, his choice and a necessary one to allow him to help so many people through their family baggage that still gives them trouble as adults.

This thinking leads to our ultimate responsibility for our own lives and that there is a purpose to everything that happens in our lives. Not is this not only empowering, it also frees us from guilt, shame, blame and anger or worse rage. Of course if we can no longer blame our parents, society or circumstances for our trouble, we then must accept our responsibility for our own troubles and weaknesses.

However, acceptance is the first step in letting go. As long as we blame someone or something else we have no reason to let go and nothing to let go of. Thus, we are doomed to carry this crippling baggage around with us until we do finally accept that it as our choices that made/make it so.