Frequent assumption made (z R)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the assumptions made when a length scale is significantly larger than another in the context of magnetic fields, specifically examining the relationship between axial distance and radius in a formula for magnetic field strength.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the reasoning behind simplifying expressions when one length is much larger than another, questioning the validity of "removing" smaller lengths from formulas. They discuss Taylor expansions and the implications of small parameters in their calculations.

Discussion Status

There is an active exploration of the mathematical justification for the assumptions made in the problem. Participants are clarifying terminology and discussing the implications of different notations in Taylor expansions, with no explicit consensus reached on the best approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of understanding the meaning of terms like "much greater" and "much less" in the context of the problem, emphasizing that these terms imply a significant difference in scale rather than a simple comparison.

ShizukaSm
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Frequently, when a length is bigger than another (say, an axial distance is bigger than the radius of something related) a certain assumption is made and the smaller length is "removed" from a formula. It's hard to describe, so let me show an example:

The magnetic field from a bobbin at an axial distance Z is:

B = \frac{\mu_0 i R^2}{2(R^2+z^2)^{3/2}}

But, according to my book, when z \gg R:

B = \frac{\mu_0 i R^2}{2z^3}

Even though this is just an example I've seen similar assumptions being made multiple times. How do I arrive at such conclusion? I hardly think that I must simply "delete" the smaller length (R^2) in the example, surely there must be a procedure to conclude that precisely?
 
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$$(R^2+z^2)^{\frac 3 2} = \left(z^2( \frac{R^2}{z^2}+1)\right)^{\frac 3 2}
\approx (z^2(0+1))^{\frac 3 2}=z^3$$
 
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Usually what is done, taking your example for clarity, is to write things in terms of the small quantity
<br /> \frac{R}{z}\ll 1.<br />
Then you do a Taylor expansion in terms of this small parameter (call it x). In this way you have a meaningful expansion that you can control. In your example:
<br /> B=\frac{\mu_0iR^2}{2z^3(1+x^2)^{3/2}}=\frac{\mu_0iR^2}{2z^3}+O(x).<br />
 
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By the way, z\gg R, and similarly, z/R\ll 1, do NOT just mean "z is greater than R" and "z/R is less than 1". They mean "z is much greater than R" and "z/R is much less than 1". "much greater" and "much less" is generally interpreted as "one can be ignored, compared to the other". That is if z\gg R, z+ R is "indistinguishable" from z, just as if you have $100,000,000, you can "ignore" $1!
 
kevinferreira said:
<br /> B=\frac{\mu_0iR^2}{2z^3(1+x^2)^{3/2}}=\frac{\mu_0iR^2}{2z^3}+O(x).<br />
Do you mean
<br /> =\frac{\mu_0iR^2}{2z^3}(1+O(x^2))<br />?
 
haruspex said:
Do you mean
<br /> =\frac{\mu_0iR^2}{2z^3}(1+O(x^2))<br />?

It doesn't really make a difference.
Yes, indeed, the first derivative vanishes at 0, but it doesn't make a difference because we're interested only in the zero order, so what I wrote holds anyway (an O(x^2) is an O(x) ).
Regarding the parenthesis, it makes no difference whatsoever, the notation O(x^a) is sufficiently ambiguous to allow many different notations where you let constants get in or not. I'm using the standard Taylor expansion notation, f(x)=f(0)+xf&#039;(0)+....
So, what I wrote definitely holds, as what you wrote.
 

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