Full A-Level Maths essential for a Physics degree?

[Bongo 16]

Yeah sure, I'd be willing to work for it Barny! :) I'm a bit weird compared to other people because usually people hate subjects their not fantastic at, but I don't hate Maths. I'm just a bit slow! I enjoy the problem solving, especially when I can do it, it's very satisfying, but I just need more time and practice than most other people. Thanks for the book recommendations. I've had a quick browse at them & they seem to be what I'll need. The only thing that worries me now is how helpful universities would be in supporting and helping my Maths (the ones that would consider me). The differing opinions in lecturers from barny & mal4mac concerns me :(

 

[Kurdt]

Like I advised before, find out which ones will be more accommodating by directly mailing admissions tutors.

 

[Bongo 16]

I'll do that now then. But I'm going to be careful in which ones I email as I don't want an admissions tutor from a good university laughing in my face (so to speak across an email). I understand that some admissions tutors can be very snobby.

 

[Kurdt]

I don't think any admissions tutor would berate you by e-mail for inquiring about what you'd have to do to get your maths up to a level they expect. Especially in the current climate where the popularity of physics is very low. They'll be very glad anyone is as enthusiastic as you about the subject.

 

[mal4mac]

Check out:

http://www.pplato.co.uk/

This is a mathematics for physics project geared for someone in your situation. Any university involved in developing this project has to be worth considering. E-mail one or more of the project officers and ask them if the package, or the universities involved, are suitable for your situation. Project officers aren't (usually) snobby and (generally) not afraid to tell you the real deal.

 

[Bongo 16]

Am I right in thinking that doing a pplato course means you then go onto study Physics at that university? Because some of those universities I quickly looked at & didn't seem to find a Physics course?& one of them had quite low entry requirements (Ds) which made me wonder about the university. I know I can't really afford to be picky, given my circumstances but one of my teachers scared me a little yesterday when he said the uni which you go to practically decides the REST OF YOUR LIFE!So he said be careful which one you choose as employers will consider this a lot.

Oh & here's a reply I received back from Leeds uni:

'' You wouldn’t be able to join Year 1 of any of our degrees without a full maths A level. The Foundation Year may be an option for you. Originally this course was designed for people who hadn’t taken the traditional A level route but who may have decided to return to higher education after a period of employment. Recently we have been accepting a number of students for this course who haven’t had both physics and maths at A2 level. The Foundation Year covers both physics and maths to just above A2 level and on successful completion students can move onto year 1 of any of our physics degrees.



There are a couple of things you may want to think about before applying for this course however. Firstly, you do have to pay tuition fees to the University (usually about half the standard fee rate) although you do get access to all the university facilities and you are taught in-house by our own lecturers. Secondly, as you will have already done physics to A2 level and some of the maths there is the danger that you may lose motivation during the year as you will be repeating quite a bit of work. Have you considered the possibility of taking a year out to complete your maths A level and then going straight into year 1?



If you require any further information please let me know. We invite all applicants in for an interview with the foundation year convenor, but I could always put you in touch with her before you apply to discuss you suitability for the course if that would be helpful. ''

I'm not sure what to do now. Doing A-Level Maths on a year out makes sense seen as I would be able to focus on my Maths a lot more & give me more time to think about unis & it would hopefully give me a better chance of getting into a half decent uni.Hmmm, if only I had been more confident at GCSE Maths & started the right AS subjects...

 

[mal4mac]

Am I right in thinking that doing a pplato course means you then go onto study Physics at that university?

The various ways of taking it do make it all a bit complicated! It's integrated into some courses, you can self study it, or you can take it through an external provider.

Am I right in thinking that doing a pplato course means you then go onto study Physics at that university?
Because some of those universities I quickly looked at & didn't seem to find a Physics course?

It would be strange if they didn't have a physics course, maybe the links from the pplato site aren't optimal.

one of them had quite low entry requirements (Ds) which made me wonder about the university.

Because these universities are conducting research on teaching physics to students who have problems with mathematics they may actually be seeking students with Ds! It would make PPLATO look better if D students were converted into students with good degrees.

I know I can't really afford to be picky, given my circumstances but one of my teachers scared me a little yesterday when he said the uni which you go to practically decides the REST OF YOUR LIFE! So he said be careful which one you choose as employers will consider this a lot.

Some employers might consider it. University employers generally go for the class of degree and work experience more than "which university" (I've worked in Unis., so I know about this.)

Oh & here's a reply I received back from Leeds uni:

''...Have you considered the possibility of taking a year out to complete your maths A level and then going straight into year 1?'

I'm not sure what to do now. Doing A-Level Maths on a year out makes sense ... I would be able to focus on my Maths a lot more & give me more time to think about unis & it would hopefully give me a better chance of getting into a half decent uni.Hmmm, if only I had been more confident at GCSE Maths & started the right AS subjects...

That sounds like great advice from Leeds. Have you checked out Readings PPLATO page? Notice it got 24/24 for teaching:

http://www.pplato.co.uk/the_team/reading_university.html

It's involved in a derived project called FLAP

http://physics.open.ac.uk/flap/

The universities involved are:

Birkbeck; Central Lancashire; Lancaster; Loughborough; Open University; Reading (Lead Institution); Royal Holloway; Sheffield Hallam; Sussex.

As FLAP is aimed at those who have had problems with Maths these institutions might view someone with only an AS level as a useful guinea pig :-) They will also want to prove that FLAP works and will bend over backwards to make sure you pass! So don't flap, take FLAP. (Hey! They should pay me for that slogan :-) Good article by the FLAP leader:

http://www.europhysicsnews.com/full/23/article4/article4.html

Reading appears to be the "red hot" centre for physics teaching research, so why not contact their admissions tutor and explain your position?

http://www.reading.ac.uk/Physics/ugprogrammes/teachingdevelopments.htm

 

[Bongo 16]

Thanks a lot for your efforts mal4mac. Very helpful. I'll contact some more of those unis you listed. Here are two more replies form admissions tutors if anyone's interested:

Royal Holloway

''...but you are correct, Physics at University has a significant mathematical content and we do require the A2 in Maths. I cannot speak for other Universities, but I expect you will find most of them require the A2. If you are serious about doing Physics at University I think you should drop some work in another subject in favour of finding the time to do the maths. I hope that's not bad news for you. For Physics entry you would 'present' much better with 3 A2's including maths and physics than with 3 plus AS maths.


At Royal Holloway we do take care to ensure that students get the time and care to master maths, as even with a good A2 individuals differ considerably in their skillfulness, for a variety of reasons. The main reason for insisting on the A2 is that it is one way to ensure that people are not left behind in their first year here.''

Liverpool

''I am pleased to say we can accept students with AS level maths at the
level you are predicted directly on to any of the Physics courses. We
have a maths support module for those students without a full A-level or
those with a weaker grade. Currently about 30% of the students take this
module and by the end of the first year they have the same level of
Maths skills as their colleges who took the other option. So I would
encourage you to apply for which ever of the courses you feel would most
interest you.''

 

[Kurdt]

Seems there are some options available. Obviously your choice is a little more limited if you decide to not take the full A2 but there are places you can go.

 

[loonychune]

As for the University of Manchester, I have friends who took the foundation year - I don't think the majority of students were mature... a good number of young students coming from A-level don't quite have the grades or are lacking a qualification (such as A2 maths) and so they end up doing a (relatively easy) year on a foundation degree and then don't have any problems at all making the transition to their degree.

 

[mal4mac]

Here's a very comprehensive guide to physics courses from the IOP:

http://www.physics.org/UploadDocs/contents/Documents/pdf/physics_on_course_2008.pdf