Functions f: ℝ --> ℝ

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    Continuous Functions
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of functions f: ℝ --> ℝ that are open maps, noncontinuous, and defined on both domain and codomain with the usual topology. Participants explore examples, properties, and implications of such functions, particularly focusing on the topological aspects of continuity and the nature of preimages.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether functions can exist that are open maps and noncontinuous under the usual topology.
  • Another participant proposes a specific function defined using a binary sequence and a convergent series, claiming it maps open intervals to ℝ, thus being an open map.
  • A participant challenges the notion of preimages of open intervals, suggesting they may consist solely of isolated points.
  • One participant argues that any open interval has every real number appearing infinitely many times in its image, which raises questions about the nature of the mapping.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need to demonstrate that there are open sets in the codomain whose preimages are not open, linking this to the earlier discussion about isolated points.
  • Discussion includes a focus on using topological definitions of continuity rather than the traditional epsilon-delta approach.
  • Participants express differing views on the implications of the proposed function's properties and the definitions involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on the properties of the proposed function and the implications of continuity and openness. There is no consensus on the existence of such functions or the nature of their preimages.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential limitations in their arguments, particularly regarding the definitions of continuity and the nature of preimages in the context of open maps.

mairzydoats
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TL;DR
looking for noncontinuous open maps
Do functions exist f: R --> R such that

1) f is an open map

2) f is noncontinuous, and

3) Both domain AND codomain are endowed with the usual topology?

I'm aware of examples that satisfy 1) and 2) but which use the discreet topology on the codomain.
 
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Identify ##x\in\mathbb R## with a binary sequence ##x_i, i\in\mathbb N, x_i\in \{0,1\}## and define
<br /> f(x) = \sum _{i=1}^\infty \frac{(-1)^{x_i}}{i}<br />
if the series converges. Otherwise, define ##f(x)=0##. The image of any open interval is ##\mathbb R## because of Riemann's rearrangement theorem, hence the map is open.
 
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Preimages of open intervals are disjoint unions of singletons?
 
Edit above: "are disjoint unions of singletons?" --> "include and/or consist solely of isolated points?"
 
That doesn't sound right to me, I think any open interval has every real number infinitely many times in its image, since you can flip one bit and then flip infinitely many bits further down the sequence to offset it.

Also this example is super cool.
 
But to meet 2) you also have to show that there are open sets in the codomain whose preimages in the domain aren't open. Hence the question relating to preimages containing isolated points.
 
It's not continuous at any point. As I mentioned, the image of any open interval is ##\mathbb R##. As a consequence, we take ##\varepsilon =1##, for example, and for any ##a\in\mathbb R## and ##\delta >0##, we find an ##x\in (a-\delta,a+\delta)## such that ##|f(x)-f(a)| \geqslant 1##.

##f## is continuous at a point ##a## iff
<br /> (\forall\varepsilon &gt;0)(\exists\delta &gt; 0)(\forall x\in\mathbb R)(|x-a|&lt;\delta \Rightarrow |f(x)-f(a)|&lt;\varepsilon)<br />
 
I want to know if it can be shown using the topological definition of continuity instead of the beta epsilon way.
 
Reformulate in topological terms, then: ##\mathbb R = f((a-\delta,a+\delta)) \not\subseteq (f(a)-1, f(a)+1)##. There is no difference between this and epsilon delta language :oops:
 

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