Fundamental problem regarding mole concept

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of amount of substance and number of moles, including their definitions, dimensional correctness of related equations, and the differences between molar mass and atomic/molecular mass. Participants explore the implications of these concepts in both theoretical and practical contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether "amount of substance" and "number of moles" refer to the same concept, suggesting that amount of substance includes a unit while number of moles may represent a numerical value without a unit.
  • There is a discussion about the dimensional correctness of two equations relating mass, molar mass, and number of moles, with some asserting that the first equation is dimensionally correct while others argue it does not matter.
  • Some participants propose that "moles" is just one unit for measuring the amount of a substance, with other units like dozens also being applicable, and that conversion can be made using Avogadro's constant.
  • Clarifications are made regarding atomic/molecular weights being expressed in g/mol, and that dividing mass by molecular weight yields the number of moles.
  • One participant emphasizes that using moles can simplify chemical equations and discussions about reactions, despite the complexities introduced by isotopes and mass variations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of amount of substance versus number of moles, as well as the dimensional correctness of the equations presented. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the definitions of terms and the assumptions underlying the equations discussed, which may affect the clarity of the arguments presented.

donaldparida
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Background: Amount of substance is a fundamental physical quantity which has mole (mol) as it's SI unit. Therefore all expressions for amount of substance should have the unit mole on simplification.

Therefore, if A = Amount of substance (normally in moles), m = Mass of the substance in a particular unit (normally in grams), M is the mass per unit amount of substance (normally in grams/mole), then,

A = m/M

If the substance is a molecule then M is known as molar mass of the substance.
But in my textbook and in many websites on the internet, I have encountered the phrase number of moles. I think it refers to the amount of substance or may be the numerical part in the amount of substance. The formulas given there were strange.

If n is the number of moles, m is the mass of the substance in grams and x is the atomic weight (for atoms of elements) or molecular weight (for molecules of elements and compounds), then,

n = m/x

This equation is not dimensionally correct if I am right.
My questions:

First of all i would like to ask whether amount of substance and number of moles refer to the same thing or is it that amount of substance has a unit along with a numerical value whereas number of moles does not have a unit and represents the numerical value in the magnitude of the amount of substance.

Secondly, between equations 1 and 2, which one is completely correct (both in meaning and dimension)?

Thirdly, since in some place I have encountered gram atomic/molecular mass in place of molar mass, i would like to know what are the differences between both and do they have the same units or different units?
 
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donaldparida said:
Secondly, between equations 1 and 2, which one is completely correct (both in meaning and dimension)?

The only difference is that in first one you have ##g/\mathrm{mol}## as the unit of denominator whereas it is ##g## in second one. First one is dimensionally correct but it does not matter.

donaldparida said:
First of all i would like to ask whether amount of substance and number of moles refer to the same thing or is it that amount of substance has a unit along with a numerical value whereas number of moles does not have a unit and represents the numerical value in the magnitude of the amount of substance.

Amount of substance can be in dozens but number of moles will be in moles.
 
mol is just one unit for the amount of a substance and you could use other units as well (a mol of atoms, a dozen eggs, a ream of paper). Amount of substance can be converted to number of moles through Avogadro's constant: 6.02e23/mol.

For example, for one helium atom * mol/6.02e23 = 1.66e-24 mol. Similarly, one helium atom * dozen/12 = 0.083 dozen.

Atomic/molecular weights are generally given in g/mol so taking a mass and dividing it by the molecular weight will give number of moles.
 
@Buffu , so number of moles has the unit moles. Right?
 
MOLES is used as a unit of measure, and can be abbreviated "mol". This unit is the count of 6.022*10^23 of whatever pieces are being counted.

DOZEN is used as a unit of measure, abbreviated in whatever way will be useful or understood. This unit is a count of 12 of whatever pieces are being counted.
 
donaldparida said:
@Buffu , so number of moles has the unit moles. Right?
Yes, therefore, I think that amount of substance should be the preferred word, which is also the view upheld by IUPAC.
 
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Moles are a better unit for making some statements. For example, "2 moles of hydrogen and 1 mole of oxygen combine to form 1 mole of water". That is close to "2 grams of hydrogen and 16 grams oxygen make 18 grams water" but not exactly. The hydrogen and oxygen could have isotopes so the mass can vary depending on how much deuterium, oxygen18 we mix in. Pure single proton hydrogen also has slightly more mass than 1 gram per mole. Then there is a slight loss in mass because energy is released in the chemical reaction. If you state the equation using mols you can disregard the extras and just express the chemical reaction.
 

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