Further Maths (Matrices and solving simultaneous equations)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem set involving matrices and solving simultaneous equations, specifically focusing on finding the inverse of a matrix and conditions for its existence, as well as applying Gaussian elimination to a system of equations.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the conditions under which the inverse of a matrix exists, particularly questioning the implications of the determinant being zero.
  • There are attempts to relate the given system of equations to matrix forms and to understand the relationship between matrices A and B.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about how to proceed with solving for k and the implications for the simultaneous equations.
  • Discussion includes comparing the structure of a simpler system of equations to the original problem to aid understanding.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, offering insights and suggestions for approaching the matrix forms and conditions for k. There is a recognition of the interconnectedness of the parts of the problem, though no consensus has been reached on the best approach to take.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the importance of accurately transcribing the equations to ensure proper analysis and comparison with the matrix A. There is also mention of the typical structure of exam questions in Further Maths, suggesting a pattern in how problems are presented.

olee
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Homework Statement


2ibnlzt.png

FP1 (MEI June 07)


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


(i) Find the value of n
I multiplied the top row of A by the left column of B and got the equation:
-5-16+k=k-n
moved stuff around and ended up with n=21

(ii)Write down the inverse matrix A-1 and write down the conditions on k for this to exist.
Well, I know that k can not be 21 otherwise the determinant will be 0 which cannot be true in this circumstance.
I'm not too sure how to do A-1. I know that the matrix itself must be what B originally was, but I'm not sure how to find out what k is (and thus the determinant).

(iii)Using the result from part (ii), or otherwise, solve the following simultaneous equations.

x-2y+z=1
2x+2y+z=12
3x+2y-z=3


I solved this using Gaussian elimination. I know how to solve this using the inverse of matrices, but I couldn't quite do part (ii) so i was unable to use that method.
 
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olee said:
(ii)Write down the inverse matrix A-1 and write down the conditions on k for this to exist.
Well, I know that k can not be 21 otherwise the determinant will be 0 which cannot be true in this circumstance.
I'm not too sure how to do A-1. I know that the matrix itself must be what B originally was, but I'm not sure how to find out what k is (and thus the determinant).

Well you know that det(A)≠ 0, so you can find the condition for k using the determinant. (This will directly show you why k≠ 21)

Otherwise if k=n, then wouldn't AB=0, meaning that either A or B is the zero matrix?

Thus I think you should write A-1 in terms of k

olee said:
(iii)Using the result from part (ii), or otherwise, solve the following simultaneous equations.

x-2y+z=1
2x+2y+z=12
3x+2y-z=3


I solved this using Gaussian elimination. I know how to solve this using the inverse of matrices, but I couldn't quite do part (ii) so i was unable to use that method.

If you put the equations into the form CX=D, the matrix C would look similar to A wouldn't it?

and since AB=constant*I

what does that say about A and B?
 
rock.freak667 said:
Well you know that det(A)≠ 0, so you can find the condition for k using the determinant. (This will directly show you why k≠ 21)

Otherwise if k=n, then wouldn't AB=0, meaning that either A or B is the zero matrix?

Thus I think you should write A-1 in terms of k



If you put the equations into the form CX=D, the matrix C would look similar to A wouldn't it?

and since AB=constant*I

what does that say about A and B?

Thanks for the reply.

I've decided to do this for part (ii)


k2fr7s.png


i'm unsure on how to solve for k in order to do part (iii) without Gaussian methods.
 
olee said:
Thanks for the reply.

I've decided to do this for part (ii)
k2fr7s.png


i'm unsure on how to solve for k in order to do part (iii) without Gaussian methods.

Well look at the system of equations

x-2y+z=1
2x+2y+z=12
3x+2y-z=3

if you write this in a matrix form, what would it be?

(Compare the 3x3 matrix to the matrix A)
 
Last edited:
rock.freak667 said:
Well look at the system of equations

x-2y+z=1
2x+2y+z=12
3x+2y-z=3

if you write this in a matrix form, what would it be?

(Compare the 3x3 matrix to the matrix A)

like this

j7spib.png
 
olee said:
like this

no no just put these equations

x-2y+z=1
2x+2y+z=12
3x+2y-z=3

in a matrix form. Forget about the previous parts from before. What does the system look like in a matrix form?
 
rock.freak667 said:
no no just put these equations

x-2y+z=1
2x+2y+z=12
3x+2y-z=3

in a matrix form. Forget about the previous parts from before. What does the system look like in a matrix form?

2yts7bl.png


i think..
 
olee said:
i think..

Let's start simpler with 2 equations with 2 unknowns

x+y=1
2x+y=2

if we wanted to put this in a matrix form we'd get

\left(<br /> \begin{array}{cc}<br /> 1 &amp; 1\\<br /> 2 &amp; 1<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right) \left( \begin{array}{c} x \\ y \end{array} \right) = \left( \begin{array}{c} 1 \\ 2 \end{array} \right)


Essentially, in the matrix, on the left side, the top line is the coefficients of the first matrix. The second line, the coefficients of the second matrix.

On the right side matrix, the first line is what ever is on the right side of the equal sign and so on.


Can you do something similar for the given set of equations?
 
rock.freak667 said:
Let's start simpler with 2 equations with 2 unknowns

x+y=1
2x+y=2

if we wanted to put this in a matrix form we'd get

\left(<br /> \begin{array}{cc}<br /> 1 &amp; 1\\<br /> 2 &amp; 1<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right) \left( \begin{array}{c} x \\ y \end{array} \right) = \left( \begin{array}{c} 1 \\ 2 \end{array} \right)


Essentially, in the matrix, on the left side, the top line is the coefficients of the first matrix. The second line, the coefficients of the second matrix.

On the right side matrix, the first line is what ever is on the right side of the equal sign and so on.


Can you do something similar for the given set of equations?

11toowm.png
 
  • #10
olee said:
11toowm.png

your second column should be -2,1,2

Check the original question, you typed it incorrectly and I quoted you so you used the wrong equations. Re-do it and then compare the 3x3 matrix to the matrix A.
 
  • #11
rock.freak667 said:
your second column should be -2,1,2

Check the original question, you typed it incorrectly and I quoted you so you used the wrong equations. Re-do it and then compare the 3x3 matrix to the matrix A.

30lnfc1.png


.: k=1

thanks!

but i was wondering, is this method true with all matrix questions like this? or is it specific to this one?
 
  • #12
olee said:
.: k=1

thanks!

but i was wondering, is this method true with all matrix questions like this? or is it specific to this one?

In these types of exams usually in Further math, if the questions have i,ii,iii,... in them, they are usually linked.

If you are asking if the matrix method can be used to solve a system of equations, then yes.
 
  • #13
thanks mate! i appreciate it!
 

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