Gauge invariance of interaction lagrangian

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the gauge invariance of the interaction Lagrangian in the context of gauge theories. Participants explore theoretical arguments and mathematical formulations related to the invariance under gauge transformations, including the implications for conserved currents and field interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the interaction Lagrangian is invariant by construction.
  • One participant provides a mathematical argument involving the divergence theorem and the behavior of conserved currents at the boundary of spacetime regions.
  • Another participant mentions Deser's Noether procedure and BRST formulations as methods that ensure gauge invariance of interactions among classical fields.
  • A participant questions the assumption that the current vanishes at spatial infinity and seeks clarification on its behavior as time approaches infinity.
  • Another participant elaborates on the conditions under which the current vanishes, discussing the implications of bounded gauge transformations and charge conservation.
  • A participant describes how the transformation of the Yang-Mills field can be derived from the requirement that the interaction term remains invariant under gauge transformations.
  • One participant notes that the invariance of the kinematic energy term for the field is maintained under gauge transformations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of viewpoints regarding the assumptions and implications of gauge invariance. While some points are agreed upon, such as the invariance by construction, other aspects, particularly concerning the behavior of currents at infinity, remain contested and unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to assumptions about the behavior of gauge transformations and conserved currents, particularly at spatial and temporal boundaries. The discussion does not resolve these issues, leaving them open for further exploration.

elsafo
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Anyone can help me how to argue that interaction lagrangian is invariant under gauge transformation?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
By construction!
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: dextercioby
elsafo said:
Anyone can help me how to argue that interaction lagrangian is invariant under gauge transformation?

\delta \int_{ D } d^{ 4 } x \ A_{ \mu } J^{ \mu } = \int_{ D } d^{ 4 } x \ \partial_{ \mu } ( \Lambda J^{ \mu } ) = \int_{ \partial D } d S_{ \mu } \ \Lambda J^{ \mu } = 0
The first equality follows from the fact that gauge fields couple to conserved (matter) current, the second equality is just the divergence theorem, and the last one follow because J_{ \mu } vanishes at the boundary \partial D at infinity.
 
Either through Deser's Noether procedure, or directly in the BRST formulations, interactions (couplings) among classical fields are automatically gauge invariant.
 
Thanks all
 
Hi Sam,

(Since the OP seems happy with the answers, I'll venture a clarification question...)

samalkhaiat said:
\delta \int_{ D } d^{ 4 } x \ A_{ \mu } J^{ \mu } = \int_{ D } d^{ 4 } x \ \partial_{ \mu } ( \Lambda J^{ \mu } ) = \int_{ \partial D } d S_{ \mu } \ \Lambda J^{ \mu } = 0
The first equality follows from the fact that gauge fields couple to conserved (matter) current, the second equality is just the divergence theorem, and the last one follow because J_{ \mu } vanishes at the boundary \partial D at infinity.
Vanishing of ##J_\mu## at spatial infinity is uncontroversial. But... why should it vanish as ##|t|\to\infty## ?

I had presumed that gauge transformations are required to approach the identity in that limit, but is there perhaps another reason?
 
strangerep said:
Hi Sam,

(Since the OP seems happy with the answers, I'll venture a clarification question...)


Vanishing of ##J_\mu## at spatial infinity is uncontroversial. But... why should it vanish as ##|t|\to\infty## ?

I had presumed that gauge transformations are required to approach the identity in that limit, but is there perhaps another reason?
Hi,
I think you do have the correct picture. We always assume that \Lambda is bounded at \partial D. The case will be trivial if \Lambda |_{ \partial D } = 0. If \Lambda = \lambda is constant at \partial D, then the statement reduces to that of charge conservation. Let me explain this: we consider the space-time region D to be a (world) tube containing the field, i.e., J_{ \mu } = 0 outside the tube. We also assume that the tube is very “fat”. That is, its boundary consists of two (space-like) hypersurfaces taken at constant times (\partial D_{ 1 } at t_{ 1 } and \partial D_{ 2 } at t_{ 2 }) plus time-like surfaces at infinity (\Sigma^{ 3 }) that join the two surfaces together. If J_{ \mu } dies out rapidly enough at spatial infinity, then the surfaces at infinity (\Sigma^{ 3 }) do not contribute to the integral \int_{ \partial D } d^{ 3 } x \ n^{ \mu } J_{ \mu }, where n^{ \mu } is the unit outer normal to \partial D:
\int_{ D } d^{ 4 } x \ \partial^{ \mu } ( \Lambda J_{ \mu } ) = \lambda \int_{ \partial D } d^{ 3 } x \ n^{ \mu } J_{ \mu } = \lambda \int_{ \partial D_{ 1 } } d^{ 3 } x \ n^{ \mu } J_{ \mu } + \lambda \int_{ \partial D_{ 2 } } d^{ 3 } x \ n^{ \mu } J_{ \mu } .
Thus
\delta \int_{ D } d^{ 4 } x \ A^{ \mu } J_{ \mu } = \lambda \left( \int_{ \partial D_{ 1 } } d^{ 3 } x \ J_{ 0 } ( t_{ 1 } , x ) - \int_{ \partial D_{ 2 } } d^{ 3 } x \ J_{ 0 } ( t_{ 2 } , x ) \right) = 0 .
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: strangerep
There is a matter field which is invariant under the kind of familiar idea \Psi \rightarrow \Psi' = \hat{U} \Psi(x) = exp (i {\bf a}(x) \cdot \hat{T}) \Psi(x). How the Yang-Mills field A_\mu^I transforms can be derived by demanding the minimal coupling interaction term

L_{int} = i \overline{\Psi} \gamma^\mu \partial_\mu \Psi + g \overline{\Psi} \gamma^\mu {\bf A}_\mu \cdot \hat{T} \Psi

is invariant, i.e.,

L_{int} = L_{int}' = i \overline{\Psi}' \gamma^\mu \partial_\mu \Psi' + g \overline{\Psi}' \gamma^\mu {\bf A}_\mu' \cdot \hat{T} \Psi'

This demands that

{\bf A}_\mu' \cdot \hat{T} = \hat{U} {\bf A}_\mu \cdot \hat{T} \hat{U}^{-1} + {i \over g} \hat{U} (\partial_\mu \hat{U}^{-1}).

Note for electrodynamics \hat{U} = exp (i a(x)) the gauge transformation is then

A_\mu' (x) = A_\mu (x) + {1 \over g} \partial_\mu a(x).

It can be shown that the kinematic energy term for the field {\bf A} of the Lagrangian (analogous to Maxwell's theory)

L_A = - {1 \over 2} Tr \{ ({\bf F}_{\mu \nu} \cdot \hat{T}) ({\bf F}^{\mu \nu} \cdot \hat{T}) \}

is invariant under such gauge transformations where we have defined the field strength operator {\bf F}_{\mu \nu} = {i \over g} [D_\mu , D_\nu] where D_\mu is the covariant derivative defined by the connection A^I_\mu.
 
Last edited:
samalkhaiat said:
Hi,
[...] If \Lambda = \lambda is constant at \partial D, then the statement reduces to that of charge conservation.
[...]
Thus
\delta \int_{ D } d^{ 4 } x \ A^{ \mu } J_{ \mu } = \lambda \left( \int_{ \partial D_{ 1 } } d^{ 3 } x \ J_{ 0 } ( t_{ 1 } , x ) - \int_{ \partial D_{ 2 } } d^{ 3 } x \ J_{ 0 } ( t_{ 2 } , x ) \right) = 0 .
OK, thanks.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K