General formula for a sequence of numbers

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around identifying a general formula for a specific sequence of numbers, ##\{0,1,3,5,10,15,21,28\}##, which is related to the indices of a matrix derived from a system of equations with symmetry constraints. Participants explore the underlying relations that generate this sequence and its applicability to arbitrary matrix sizes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a sequence of numbers and seeks a general formula to compute coefficients for arbitrary matrix sizes.
  • Another participant suggests checking the sequence against the Online Encyclopaedia of Integer Sequences, noting that it does not match any known sequences and questions the accuracy of the provided values.
  • A different participant challenges the clarity of the sequence's generation, asking for an explanation of the apparent pattern in the number of non-zero entries across rows.
  • One participant proposes that changing a specific number in the sequence could relate it to the binomial coefficient ##\binom{n}{2}##.
  • A later reply clarifies the structure of the matrix and the relationship between the matrix size and the sequence, detailing how the number of elements in each row decreases and how the indices of non-zero entries are determined.
  • The same participant acknowledges a mistake in their earlier counting of non-zero entries and provides a corrected version of the indices for each row.
  • After the correction, the participant expresses that they now see the sequence as proposed by another contributor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the sequence's generation and its relation to the matrix structure. There is no consensus on a definitive formula, and some participants question the accuracy of the initial sequence values.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence of the sequence on both the matrix structure and the integer C, suggesting that different matrices could yield different sequences. The exact nature of the underlying formula remains unresolved.

Telemachus
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Hi there. I am working with a problem where a sequence of numbers arises. This sequence reads: ##\{0,1,3,5,10,15,21,28\}## as far as I have worked it. I am trying to figure out the underlying relation that gives this sequence. These are related to indexes in a matrix, and I am trying to generalize the result in order to be able to compute these coefficients for arbitrary matrix sizes.

The thing is that, let's say, for the first row, I have indexes that are non zero for all elements ##a_{1,j}## such that ##j \leq C##, with C an integer.

For the second row, the first index which is not zero is ##a_{2,C+1}## and the last non zero entry is ##a_{2,2C-1}##

For the third row, the first non zero element is ##a_{3,2C}##, and the last non zero entry is ##a_{3,3C-3}##For the fourth row the first non zero entry is ##a_{4,3C-2}##, and the last non zero entry reads: ##a_{4,4C-5}##.For the fifth element it is ##a_{5,4C-4}## and the last ##a_{5,5C-10}##

For the sixth: ##a_{6,5C-9}## and the last is: ##a_{6,6C-15}##;

For the seventh, first: ##a_{7,6C-14}##, last ##a_{7,7C-21}##

Eighth, first: ##a_{8,7C-20}##, last: ##a_{8,8C-28}##

I think that if I figure out a general formula for the sequence I've posted at the beginning, then I could generate the indexes for any arbitrary matrix element which is non zero, and for any matrix size.

Thanks in advance.
 
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There is an amazing website the Online Encyclopaedia of Integer Sequences. It has an extraordinarily comprehensive set of entries. You just put in the first few elements of your sequence, separated by commas, and it tells you if there's a match. Yours doesn't, see here. It is very rare to come across a sequence that is not in the encyclopaedia. Are you absolutely sure of your values? If even one is wrong, it won't make a match even if the true sequence is in there.

If you are sure of the values and are able to precisely and clearly specify an algorithm for generating the sequence, and the sequence is infinite, you can register it as a new sequence in the encyclopaedia, which I think would be quite an honour.

I don't understand your specification though. It looks to me as though the sequence depends on both the matrix and on C. So the matrix would need to be specified in order to specify the sequence, and every matrix could give a different sequence. It also looks to me as though the sequence would not be infinite, although that could just be my failure to understand the specification.
 
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First you have to explain where these numbers come from.
The first row has C entries, the second C-1, the third C-2, the fourth C-2 again, the fifth suddenly has C-5, the sixth row has C-5 again. Why? Where does that pattern come from?
 
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@Telemachus if you change the fourth number from 5 to 6 your sequence is ##\binom{n}{2}##
 
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Hi! thank you all for your replies. The matrix comes from a system of equations, where there are symmetry constraints. In particular, the solution for the system satisfies ##x_{k,k'}=x_{k',k}##. This is the vector of solution for the matrix that I am trying to construct, and it is entered as ##x_{1,1},x_{1,2},...,x_{1,K},x_{2,2},x_{2,3},...,x_{2,K},x_{3,3},x_{3,4},...,...,x_{K,K}##.

The first row should have K elements, the second should have K-1 elements (for example, if K=3: ##a_{2,4}, a_{2,5})##, if K=4:##a_{2,5}, a_{2,6},a_{2,7}## ), the third row has K-2 elements, the fourth K-3, the fifth K-4, and the nth should have K-n-1e, and the Kth row should have only one element. However, the first element in the second rows appears at the column K+1, the first element of the third rows appears at the 2K column, for the fourth row appears at the 3K-2 column, and so on.

This has to do with the specific structure of the system of equations, the system is under-determined, and the matrix has ##(K^2+K)/2## elements. As there is a strict mathematical procedure by which I am constructing the matrix, I think that there has to be some underlying formula that generates the sequences to obtain the positions of the elements, and that I am actually using it without finding the general expression for it (I'm not seeing the formula, but I can do it by brute force).

mfb said:
First you have to explain where these numbers come from.
The first row has C entries, the second C-1, the third C-2, the fourth C-2 again, the fifth suddenly has C-5, the sixth row has C-5 again. Why? Where does that pattern come from?

I've made a mistake when I did the counting, here I'll try to correct it:

For the second row, the first index which is not zero is ##a_{2,C+1}## and the last non zero entry is ##a_{2,2C-1}## (K-1) elements)

For the third row, the first non zero element is ##a_{3,2C}##, and the last non zero entry is ##a_{3,3C-3}## (K-2) elements)

For the fourth row the first non zero entry is ##a_{4,3C-2}##, and the last non zero entry reads: ##a_{4,4C-6}##. (K-3) elements)

For the fifth element it is ##a_{5,4C-5}## and the last ##a_{5,5C-10}## (K-4) elements)

For the sixth: ##a_{6,5C-9}## and the last is: ##a_{6,6C-15}##; (K-5) elements)

For the seventh, first: ##a_{7,6C-14}##, last ##a_{7,7C-21}## (K-6) elements)

Eighth, first: ##a_{8,7C-20}##, last: ##a_{8,8C-28}## (K-7) elements)

After the correction, now I see that the sequence is the one provided by PeroK.

Thanks a lot.
 

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