General formula to find δ, given ε, c, f(x), and L

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a general formula for δ in relation to ε, c, f(x), and L, particularly in the context of limits and continuity. Participants explore specific cases and seek to understand patterns and generalizations in mathematical reasoning related to these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant identifies a pattern in specific cases, such as f(x)=ax+b and f(x)=x^2, and questions how to justify the additional term in the derivative for x^2.
  • Another participant questions whether a true pattern exists or if it is an illusion.
  • Some participants note that there is not a unique δ for a given ε, and that while one can find a maximum δ, it may not yield a straightforward pattern, especially for polynomials.
  • There is a clarification regarding the terminology used, with a participant correcting a typo about finding the "largest" δ instead of the "minimum." They emphasize that ε is specified first, which then determines δ.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that there is no unique δ for a given ε and that finding a maximum δ can be complex. However, there is no consensus on whether a general formula or pattern exists for all functions, as opinions vary on the ease of finding such a formula.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations of finding a general formula, noting that the complexity of functions, particularly polynomials, may prevent the establishment of a simple pattern. Additionally, the dependence on the specification of ε before determining δ is emphasized.

TylerH
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I noticed there's a pattern to the special cases f(x)=ax+b and f(x)=x^2:
[tex]lim_{x\rightarrow c}ax+b=L, \delta=\frac{\epsilon}{a}[/tex]
[tex]lim_{x\rightarrow c}x^2=L, \delta=\frac{\epsilon}{2c+1}[/tex]
I noticed that a is the derivative of ax+b, and 2x(2c) is the derivative of x^2, but how do I justify the + 1 part of the special case for x^2?

Is there any formula for a general case?
 
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Is there a pattern, or am I seeing one that doesn't exist?
 
Of course, for such problems, there isn't a unique δ that works for a given ε, since if you have one value for δ, any smaller one will work. So the problem is well defined if you are looking for the largest δ that will work for a given ε, which is what you have done in the linear case.

The short answer to your question is no. You can, in principle, always find the minimum δ, but it won't always be easy and certainly you won't find a nice pattern, even for polynomials.
 
LCKurtz said:
You can, in principle, always find the minimum δ, but it won't always be easy and certainly you won't find a nice pattern, even for polynomials.

Do you mean "[...] find the largest δ, [...]"?

Is there a general way to find the largest delta given f(x) and the largest epsilon?
 
LCKurtz said:
Of course, for such problems, there isn't a unique δ that works for a given ε, since if you have one value for δ, any smaller one will work. So the problem is well defined if you are looking for the largest δ that will work for a given ε, which is what you have done in the linear case.

The short answer to your question is no. You can, in principle, always find the minimum δ, but it won't always be easy and certainly you won't find a nice pattern, even for polynomials.

TylerH said:
Do you mean "[...] find the largest δ, [...]"?

Is there a general way to find the largest delta given f(x) and the largest epsilon?

Yes, that is clearly a typo isn't it, given the emphasis on largest above. I meant maximum when I wrote minimum. So, yes, you can do it in principle but you may have to resort to numerical methods but no, it won't give you any nice pattern. And you don't mean "given f(x) and the largest epsilon". Epsilon is specified first, then you can find delta depending on it.
 

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