Generating an inverse function from the given one

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the inverse function of a given relationship involving pressure \( P \) and density \( \rho \). Participants explore methods to derive \( \rho \) as a function of \( P \), particularly focusing on a quintic polynomial that arises from the transformation of the original equation. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and numerical methods for solving polynomial equations.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a relationship involving \( P \) and \( \rho \) and derives a quintic polynomial in terms of \( y = \rho^{2/3} \).
  • Another participant notes the absence of a general solution for quintic equations, referencing Abel and Ruffini's proof, and suggests numerical methods if constants are known.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about performing numerical solutions and proposes a method of assuming values for constants to plot a graph.
  • One participant suggests using Taylor expansion and provides a detailed transformation approach to derive a series solution for the quintic equation.
  • Another method discussed involves differentiating the polynomial with respect to \( P \) to derive a differential equation for \( y(P) \), which can be solved numerically.
  • A participant recalls historical methods related to the topic, indicating a broader context for the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on a single method for solving the quintic equation. Multiple approaches are proposed, and uncertainty remains regarding the best numerical techniques to apply.

Contextual Notes

Participants express limitations regarding the general solution for quintic equations and the need for numerical values for constants to proceed with calculations. The discussion includes various assumptions and transformations that may affect the outcomes.

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Hi, I have a relationship

$$P \cong \Bigg[\Big(K_1\rho^{\frac{5}{3}}\Big)^{-2}+ \Big(K_2\rho^{\frac{4}{3}}\Big)^{-2}\Bigg]^{-\frac{1}{2}}$$I need to find the inverse as $$\rho= \rho(P)$$.

I made a detailed calculation and came up to this

$$y^5+\Big(\frac{P}{K_2}\Big)^2 y+ \Big(\frac{P}{K_1}\Big)^2=0$$
here $$ y= \rho^{\frac{2}{3}}$$
Now I am stuck, I need a general solution for 5th order polynomail or is there aany other suggested method to solve, plaes help
 
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Hmm. Using your substitution $y=\rho^{2/3}$, I get
$$y^5-\left(\frac{P}{K_1}\right)^{\! 2}-\left(\frac{P}{K_2}\right)^{\!2}y=0.$$
There is no general solution to the quintic, as Abel and Ruffini proved.

If you have numerical values for the constants, you could solve this numerically. If the coefficients are all real, then you're guaranteed at least one real solution.
 
Ackbach said:
Hmm. Using your substitution $y=\rho^{2/3}$, I get
$$y^5-\left(\frac{P}{K_1}\right)^{\! 2}-\left(\frac{P}{K_2}\right)^{\!2}y=0.$$
There is no general solution to the quintic, as Abel and Ruffini proved.

If you have numerical values for the constants, you could solve this numerically. If the coefficients are all real, then you're guaranteed at least one real solution.

Thanks a lot. Now I have never done any numerical solution. if I assume k1 and k2 to be 1 and then take different values for P to get different values for y, and plot a graph, will it be a reasonable solution.

can you please guide how to get a numerical solution for this quintic equation?
 
A standard way to get a numeric solution is to use the Taylor expansion. Let

$$x^5 + ax + b = 0$$

Be your quintic. Applying the affine transformation $x = \sqrt[4]{a} \cdot z$ gives

$$\sqrt[4]{a^5} \cdot z^5 + \sqrt[4]{a^5} \cdot z + b = 0$$

Dividing out by $\sqrt[4]{a^5}$ and setting $t = b \cdot a^{-5/4}$ result the one-parameter Bring-Jerrard form

$$z^5 + z = -t \tag{+}$$

Write $z = z(-t)$ for one of the 5 solutions of the quintic dependent on parameter $t$. Clearly, if $t = 0$ then $z(t)$ must satisfy $z(z^4 + 1) = 0$ the real solution of which is $z = 0$. Thus, $z(0) = 0$. For calculating $z'(0)$, differentiate $(+)$ with respect to $t$ to get

$$5z(t)^4 \cdot z'(t) + z'(t) + 1 = 0 \Rightarrow z'(t) = \frac1{1 + 5z(t)^4}$$

Substituting $t = 0$ above and noting that $z(0) = 0$, we get $z'(0) = 1$. One can in this way derive the higher derivatives at $t = 0$. First few values of the derivatives are $z(0) = 0, z'(0) = 1, z''(0) = 0, z'''(0) = 0, z^\text{IV}(0) = 0, z^\text{V}(0) = -1$ etc. The nonzero derivatives are $z'(0) = 1, z^\text{V}(0) = -1, z^\text{IX}(0) = 5, z^\text{XIII}(0) = -35$ etc.

Finding a closed form for this is a pain in the neck. Of course, we can cheat. The first entry is precisely the sequence involved (see Sloan's comment on the formula section). Thus, our desired Maclaurin series is

$$z(t) = \sum_{k = 0}^\infty \binom{5k}{k} \frac{(-1)^{k+1} t^{1+4k}}{1+4k}$$

This is not entirely convergent outside the radius $|t| = 4 \cdot 5^{-5/4}$, so you have to be careful. Let's try out formula for $t = 1/2$ :

Using the PARI/GP snippet $\colorbox{LightGray}{$\texttt{solve(x=0,-1,x^5+x+1)}$}$ one gets the approximate solution of $-0.47565274353960478548185664$. Whereas using the snippet $\colorbox{LightGray}{$\texttt{sum(k=0,10,binomial(5*k,k)*(-1)^(k+1)*(1/2)^(1+4*k)/(1+4*k)}$}$, one gets $-0.47569803996611881302669644$ which is correct upto 4 decimal digits. This is not really THAT efficient, however one can use some series accelerations to get an rapid convergence of the series.

[PS : We can actually prove the above formula rigorously without any cheating whatsoever, but that'd require a fair bit of complex analysis. Google "Lagrange-Burmann inversion"]
 
Last edited:
Another method is the following: differentiate the equation w.r.t. $P$, treating $y=y(P)$ thus:
\begin{align*}
y^5-\frac{P^2}{K_2^2}y-\frac{P^2}{K_1^2}&=0 \\
5y^4 y'-\frac{1}{K_2^2}\left(2Py+P^2 y'\right)-\frac{2P}{K_1^2}&=0 \\
5y^4 y'-\frac{P^2}{K_2^2} y'&=\frac{2P}{K_1^2}+\frac{2Py}{K_2^2}=2P\left[ \frac{1}{K_1^2}+\frac{y}{K_2^2}\right] \\
y'&=\frac{2P\left[ \frac{1}{K_1^2}+\frac{y}{K_2^2}\right]}{5y^4-\frac{P^2}{K_2^2}}.
\end{align*}
Now solve this differential equation numerically for $y(P)$, and plot the solution. I know that Mathematica will do this. I would guess MATLAB could do it as well.
 
That reminded me of the Cockle-Harley type methods of the mid 19s! [this and this]
 

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