Geodesic Conjugate Points Explained

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of geodesic conjugate points as described in the context of the Raychaudhuri-Newman-Penrose (RNP) equation. Participants explore the implications of the equation, particularly in relation to affine parameter distance, energy conditions, and the derivation of certain inequalities. The scope includes theoretical aspects of general relativity and mathematical reasoning related to geodesics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the terms used in the RNP equation, specifically asking for clarification on affine parameter distance and the derivation of a specific relation involving the convergence scalar $$\rho$$.
  • Another participant suggests that the RNP equation refers to the Raychaudhuri equation and points out potential issues with notation and the need for a factor of $$1/3$$, while also correcting the terminology from "conjugate points" to "caustic."
  • A third participant acknowledges the notation differences but emphasizes that it is consistent with the unified RNP equation and requests assistance in deriving results from the strong energy condition.
  • A later reply clarifies that for null geodesics, the weak energy condition suffices, and provides a derivation of an inequality for $$\rho$$ based on the weak energy condition and the positive norm of shear.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach consensus on the correct application of energy conditions or the terminology used. There are competing views regarding the necessity of the strong versus weak energy conditions and the interpretation of the RNP equation.

Contextual Notes

Participants note differences in notation and terminology, which may lead to misunderstandings. The discussion also highlights the dependence on specific definitions and the potential for missing assumptions in the derivations presented.

cr7einstein
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Dear all,
I was reading "Nature of space and time" By Penrose and Hawking pg.13,

> If $$\rho=\rho_0$$ at $$\nu=\nu_0$$, then the RNP equation
>
> $$\frac{d\rho}{d\nu} = \rho^2 + \sigma^{ij}\sigma_{ij} + \frac{1}{n} R_{\mu\nu} l^\mu l^\nu$$
implies that the convergence $$\rho$$ will become infinite at a point $$q$$ within an affine parameter distance$$\frac{1}{\rho_0}$$ if the null geodesic can be extended that far.
>
> *if $$\rho=\rho_0$$ at $$\nu=\nu_0$$ then $$\rho$$ is greater than or equal to $$\frac{1}{\rho^{-1} + \nu_0-\nu}$$. Thus there is a conjugate point before $$\nu=\nu_0 + \rho^{-1}$$.*

I don't understand many terms here. Firstly, what is affine parameter distance? And I am at loss as to how does one get the 2nd relation between $$\rho$$ and $$\frac{1}{\rho^{-1} + \nu_0-\nu}$$. How can you derive it? Frankly, I don't understand ANYTHING about how does thhis equation come, though I suspect it just the Frobenius theorem.

Please give me DETAILED asnwers, as I have mentioned before, I am not too comfortable with it. I don't understand anything in blockquotes other than the RNP equation.

Thanks in advance!
 
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Presumably by RNP you mean the Raychaudhuri equation, although the notations you have used are very non-standard and you seem to have redefined the expansion scalar to be its negation. Anyways, there isn't much detail involved. Just use the strong energy condition and the positive norm of the shear to get an differential inequality for the scalar ##\rho## and integrate to get the result. There should be a factor of ##1/3## that you seem to be missing, it follows from the Raychaudhuri equation. By the way this is a caustic not a pair of conjugate points.
 
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I have typed the exact same lines as that of the book.I know that the notation is different from the standard Raychauduri Equation, but this is because thiis the unified Raychaudhari-Newman -penrose(RNP) equation...as hawking puts it. the $$\frac{1}{3}$$ you are talking about is $$n=3$$ fot timelike curves. Here's a link to the pdf of the book : http://www.benpadiah.com/otherstuff/elib/HawkingNatureOfSpaceTime.pdf And can you please help me get the desired result from the strong energy condition? I don't get the head or tail of how it can be done to get the positive norm of shear...
 
For null geodesic fields you only need the weak energy condition, you don't need the strong energy condition.
The weak energy condition clearly implies that ##R_{\alpha\beta}l^{\alpha}l^{\beta} \geq 0## for any null vector ##l^a## (see p.8 of the pdf you linked).

Furthermore the shear has positive norm ##\sigma_{\alpha\beta}\sigma^{\alpha\beta} \geq 0## because it is space-like in both indices.

Therefore ##\frac{d\rho}{dv} \geq \rho^2 \Rightarrow \frac{d\rho}{\rho^2} \geq dv \Rightarrow \rho^{-1}|_{\rho}^{\rho_0} \geq v - v_0 \Rightarrow \rho \geq \frac{1}{\rho_0^{-1} - v + v_0}##.
 
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