Getting into physics after computer engineering

[arpit2agrawal]

Hello

I have bachelors degree in computer engineering from Pune University, India. I want to pursue further career in physics. I have scored 940/990 in subject GRE physics and I am now preparing for general GRE.

Please suggest from which university (of US preferably) I can get masters degree in physics. Every university says that they require physics background...

Thank you

 

[fss]

Lots of universities offer master's degrees in physics. Google search.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

Lots of universities offer master's degrees in physics. Google search.

But all university expect some previous education in physics. I didn't have any course in physics in my bachelors (since my bachelors is in computer engineering). Please suggest me some university.

 

[kanato]

Suggesting a university to you isn't going to do you much good. I would suggest calling around to various universities and talking to someone there about your situation. You can see how receptive they are. I suspect you will find different responses at different schools. Not having any previous coursework in physics will hurt your chances of getting in, for sure. Many of them will probably want to feel confident that you have enough background to at least teach the introductory physics classes. I think many universities will let you spend a year taking advanced undergraduate classes.

I would suggest taking or auditing some courses in physics at a local university. Also, I would say that you are interested in getting a PhD instead of a masters. Most physics programs in the US prefer to get students who want to be there for the long haul.

 

[maverick280857]

But all university expect some previous education in physics. I didn't have any course in physics in my bachelors (since my bachelors is in computer engineering).

As an engineer, you would surely have done some courses on basic physics (mechanics, electrodynamics) and modern physics (optics, quantum physics)? A physics background is recommended but not absolutely necessary. Doing well on the PGRE could be more important if you don't have a physics undergrad.

You should talk to professors in the departments you want to work, that's the best thing to do. I don't know how auditing courses in physics after your degree will really help your graduate application, though it'll no doubt expose you to more physics.

A lot depends on what kind of physics you want to get into. You didn't specify that. Your computer engineering background could prove to be handy.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

As an engineer, you would surely have done some courses on basic physics (mechanics, electrodynamics) and modern physics (optics, quantum physics)?

I did take following courses related to physics and maths during my bachelors:

Engineering mechanics
Basic mechanical engineering
Basic civil engineering
Basic electrical engineering
Basic electronics engineering
Electronics devices and circuits
Applied sciences I
Applied sciences II
Engineering mathematics I
Engineering mathematics II
Engineering mathematics III

Is that sufficient? Please tell me.

You should talk to professors in the departments you want to work, that's the best thing to do.

Thanks. I'll do that once I get my general GRE scores (probably around Aug 2011).

A lot depends on what kind of physics you want to get into. You didn't specify that. Your computer engineering background could prove to be handy.

I want to go into fundamental research. I am interested in subjects like quantum physics, relativity, etc. Please suggest me career path.

Thank you very much.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

Engineering mechanics
Basic mechanical engineering
Basic civil engineering
Basic electrical engineering
Basic electronics engineering
Electronics devices and circuits
Applied sciences I
Applied sciences II

Does that complete 20 semester hours of physics? Please tell me.

 

[maverick280857]

Does that complete 20 semester hours of physics? Please tell me.

Usually, a very basic physics curriculum involves classical mechanics, electrodynamics, quantum mechanics, statistical mechanics and thermodynamics. Then there are slightly more advanced courses on atomic and molecular physics, relativity and nuclear/particle physics.

The courses you have listed here are 'basic' engineering courses and most not-so-applied physics departments will not see them as contributing to the standard physics curriculum.

I do not know where the "20 semester hours" requirement stems from, but the courses you listed will definitely be quite unfamiliar to potential graduate school employers. In fact it might be helpful to include a brief list of course contents and textbooks used for each course. Mentioning your instructor's name against the courses could be helpful too.

 

[maverick280857]

I want to go into fundamental research. I am interested in subjects like quantum physics, relativity, etc. Please suggest me career path.

You'll have to pick between the likes of 'condensed matter physics', 'high energy physics', 'atomic, molecular and optical physics', 'cosmology' or 'astrophysics' (I'm skipping a lot of other sub fields). Most of these involve quantum physics and relativity these days, which are building blocks rather than research fields per se.

So basically you'll have to be clearer about what kind of physics you want to do. For starters, theory or experiment. Since you have a lot of time, why don't you visit the graduate information pages of various Physics departments of US universities and look at their active research topics, read up some background and figure out where you interests lie.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

Okay. I'll do that.

The courses you are telling are covered in Master of Science (Physics) degree in Indian universities. I think I should go into that program in my home country, India first. Than I can apply for PhD program into US universities, right?

 

[arpit2agrawal]

Hey maverick280857, I read in one thread that you went from electronics engineering to physics. Which 2 universities did you get admit from? Please also tell me, how are chances of good universities like MIT, Harvard or even Columbia giving admit to me for their Physics PhD program considering my bachelors in computer engineering, subject GRE score of 940/990 and assuming I get good general GRE score also (around 600 in verbal and 750 in quant)?
...I know 600 in verbal is not a good one but I don't think I'll do better than that.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[crackjack]

In your case, it would be wiser to apply for a masters from a mid-level univ, and later apply for PhD to better univ. The reasons being:
1. Since PhDs require univ to commit a lot more resources for a longer time, they will feel less it less riskier to admit a student like you (so don't expect funding)
2. Good univ usually take in students who will stay for phd and so their masters acceptance ratio is very small.

Another cheaper option is to finish your masters from India before you directly apply for a funded PhD at a good-ranked univ (outside or within India).

 

[arpit2agrawal]

Okay. Thank you crackjack. I think I will do what you suggested.

 

[maverick280857]

Okay. Thank you crackjack. I think I will do what you suggested.

I'm sorry, I wrote a long reply to all your questions, but it seems it never got posted. Anyway, for now, try to do well on your general GRE (the quantitative and analytical writing parts at least). Have you already graduated or are you still an undergrad? If you have graduated, try auditing courses in TIFR and other universities within the country while you prepare for your applications.

As to your other question, Indian universities will sometimes admit students directly to the PhD program after a BTech/BE by making them go through Masters level coursework. You should take the entrance exams of TIFR, HRI (JEST) and IMSc.

US univs usually admit students directly to the PhD program, and they don't require a masters degree. In fact sometimes you may have to join the integrated MS+PhD program in physics in spite of having a masters from India.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

I'm sorry, I wrote a long reply to all your questions, but it seems it never got posted. Anyway, for now, try to do well on your general GRE (the quantitative and analytical writing parts at least).

Okay. I will do my best possible.

Have you already graduated or are you still an undergrad? If you have graduated, try auditing courses in TIFR and other universities within the country while you prepare for your applications.
As to your other question, Indian universities will sometimes admit students directly to the PhD program after a BTech/BE by making them go through Masters level coursework. You should take the entrance exams of TIFR, HRI (JEST) and IMSc.

I saw brochure of entrance exams of TIFR, IIT, etc. and also of universities like University of Mumbai, University of Nagpur, University of Amravati (my hometown) but all expect their students to be already bachelors in physics major for getting admit to masters/PhD program. The only university which I saw allow B.E./B.Tech. students to go for master/PhD program is Pune University. Please tell me if you know more such Indian universities.

I am preparing for general GRE. I'll apply for masters from Pune University and also to masters program from US universities (both kind of programs viz. terminal masters degree and master+PhD). Let's see where I get admit from and than I'll decide accordingly. I'll post in this thread as soon as I get admit.

 

[maverick280857]

I saw brochure of entrance exams of TIFR, IIT, etc. and also of universities like University of Mumbai, University of Nagpur, University of Amravati (my hometown) but all expect their students to be already bachelors in physics major for getting admit to masters/PhD program. The only university which I saw allow B.E./B.Tech. students to go for master/PhD program is Pune University. Please tell me if you know more such Indian universities.

TIFR, HRI, IISc admit students through admission tests. I believe having a bachelors in engineering is not technically an impediment, as long as you clear the tests and also the interviews that follow.

For TIFR: http://univ.tifr.res.in/gs2011/index.html
JEST (for HRI): http://jest2011.imsc.res.in/
CMI: http://www.cmi.ac.in/admissions/procedure.php

There's also RRI in Bangalore.

I do not know what the current rules in IITs are, but there have been cases of engineering students being admitted to the MSc or sometimes even direct PhD programs in science. Rather than referring to brochures, you should contact professors and officials who handle admissions. There are exceptions to the rule, and your motivation and persistence will help more than anything else.

Good luck!

 

[ZapperZ]

Hello

I have bachelors degree in computer engineering from Pune University, India. I want to pursue further career in physics. I have scored 940/990 in subject GRE physics and I am now preparing for general GRE.

Please suggest from which university (of US preferably) I can get masters degree in physics. Every university says that they require physics background...

Thank you

You might wan to start by reading this thread:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=64966

Note that if your intention is actually to get a Ph.D in physics (in the US), and you think you need a Masters degree first, you need to read up a bit more on US graduate education system.

Zz.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

TIFR, HRI, IISc admit students through admission tests. I believe having a bachelors in engineering is not technically an impediment, as long as you clear the tests and also the interviews that follow.

For TIFR: http://univ.tifr.res.in/gs2011/index.html
JEST (for HRI): http://jest2011.imsc.res.in/
CMI: http://www.cmi.ac.in/admissions/procedure.php

There's also RRI in Bangalore.

I do not know what the current rules in IITs are, but there have been cases of engineering students being admitted to the MSc or sometimes even direct PhD programs in science. Rather than referring to brochures, you should contact professors and officials who handle admissions. There are exceptions to the rule, and your motivation and persistence will help more than anything else.

Good luck!

Thank you so much for the information. Yes. I checked. Some institutes in India give admit directly into PhD(Physics) program even after B.E. degree. TIFR and RRI Bangalore are two examples. TIFR's application date for 2011 admit is already over. I can now apply to RRI (admission based on my awesome AGRE score 940/990), CMI and probably some more institutes. There are lots of institutes in India which offer PhD(Physics) programs. May you please tell me which are good (considering my interest in very fundamental research like quantum physics, although I am not sure if I'll do something in exactly quantum physics). If you have something like ranking of these research institutes, please share it with me.

Also, please tell me, is it advisable for me to go for PhD program in Indian institute or should I prefer US university? How much difference does it make? Can I go to US for research after getting a PhD from India?

Note to all: You guys have no idea to what extent people like me are benefiting from this forum !

 

[arpit2agrawal]

You might wan to start by reading this thread:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=64966

Note that if your intention is actually to get a Ph.D in physics (in the US), and you think you need a Masters degree first, you need to read up a bit more on US graduate education system.

Zz.

Yes. I read that thread. Actually I read on many US universities website that for getting into PhD program they require at least a bachelors degree with good level of concentration in Physics. I had hardly any core physics course in my bachelors (since I bachelor-ed in computer engineering). So I am thinking of doing some physics courses (in the form of masters degree) before going for PhD. Please tell me if there is any better path to get PhD from a good US university. Will good US university give admit to me in Physics PhD program (considering I bachelor-ed in computer engineering)?

 

[arpit2agrawal]

May you please tell me which are good (considering my interest in very fundamental research like quantum physics, although I am not sure if I'll do something in exactly quantum physics). If you have something like ranking of these research institutes, please share it with me.

Also, please tell me, is it advisable for me to go for PhD program in Indian institute or should I prefer US university? How much difference does it make? Can I go to US for research after getting a PhD from India?

Some more questions:
Considering my interest in very fundamental research like quantum physics, I should go for theoretical physics rather than experimental physics, right?
How is Indian Institutes of Science Education and Research (IISER), Pune? I am keen to study in Pune due to family reasons but I can go to any city for better option.

 

[CyberShot]

You got a 940 on the PGRE, and you say you haven't taken a real physics course in your undergrad? Good for you.

But, see this is where I start to question the efficacy of the PGRE -.-

And I really look down upon the fact that the test can be exploited by international students in India and China who are always acing it because of repeated memorization and/or other tricks.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

You got a 940 on the PGRE, and you say you haven't taken a real physics course in your undergrad?

See this is why I question the efficacy of the PGRE -.-

Dude... but I did watch all video lectures of MIT, USA and also read books recommended by MIT for Physics undergraduate program. Score of subject GRE is percentile based, and even good Physics bachelors from good US universities don't score that much.

 

[DrummingAtom]

You got a 940 on the PGRE, and you say you haven't taken a real physics course in your undergrad? Good for you.

But, see this is where I start to question the efficacy of the PGRE -.-

And I really look down upon the fact that the test can be exploited by international students in India and China who are always acing it because of repeated memorization and/or other tricks.

Dude... but I did watch all video lectures of MIT, USA and also read books recommended by MIT for Physics undergraduate program. Score of subject GRE is percentile based, and even good Physics bachelors from good US universities don't score that much.

Just ignore CyberShot, his response doesn't offer any help and is just a rant. It sounds like you worked hard for that score and deserve it. Keep it up.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

And I really look down upon the fact that the test can be exploited by international students in India and China who are always acing it because of repeated memorization and/or other tricks.

Even I hate people who pass exams by repeated memorization and/or other tricks. It's disgusting the way people do that. Such people can never succeed in real life. Their success is limited just till academics.
...but not all Indians are like that!

It sounds like you worked hard for that score and deserve it. Keep it up.

Thank you.

 

[maverick280857]

May you please tell me which are good (considering my interest in very fundamental research like quantum physics, although I am not sure if I'll do something in exactly quantum physics). If you have something like ranking of these research institutes, please share it with me.

I don't really believe in rankings. It all boils down to what you do for research and how good your work is. After that, a lot depends on your advisor, his/her contacts and the network you build. So, you should visit these places, talk to professors and figure out whose work you find the most interesting.

PS -- "Quantum physics" by itself isn't really a research topic in many physics departments. It's also a little vague because almost all theoretical physics research nowadays involves the use of quantum mechanics. "Fundamental" research in quantum physics is often done in the context of quantum information theory, sometimes in math and philosophy departments.

Also, please tell me, is it advisable for me to go for PhD program in Indian institute or should I prefer US university? How much difference does it make?

Again, this is a matter of opinion. Go to a place with a decent department size, people working in various different areas outside of your immediate thesis topic and where there are a lot of talks and seminars (so you know what's going on in other fields).

Can I go to US for research after getting a PhD from India?

Yes.

 

[maverick280857]

But, see this is where I start to question the efficacy of the PGRE -.-

And I really look down upon the fact that the test can be exploited by international students in India and China who are always acing it because of repeated memorization and/or other tricks.

This is a myopic perspective. It is widely believed PGRE is more a test of discipline than of physics. Many bright students do poorly on the PGRE because they haven't had much time to prepare for the test per se, while reading through Sakurai, Jackson or Goldstein. All this is too well known, and is really off-topic.

Many departments don't think highly of PGRE as an indicator of one's prowess in undergrad physics. But given that a lot of the material is covered in engineering courses in India, its not fair to make a sweeping generalization about using "repeated memorization and/or other tricks." Apart from some specialized questions in particle/nuclear physics, a lot of the 'standard' questions are at the level of engineering entrance exams for IITs, which students prepare hard for anyway right from junior high.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

Can I go to US for research after getting a PhD from India?

Yes.

What generally people do after getting PhD (from US or India, whatever) if they wish to go into fundamental research (i.e. not applied industrial research)? Do they work as a professor in some university and do their research simultaneously or do they work in government/private research companies or anything else? Also please tell me if I do PhD in India then is it easy to get into such places in US (I mean just telephonic interview is possible) and do they sponsor my visa also? I think getting into US from India as a student is much easier than as a professional, am I right?

 

[maverick280857]

What generally people do after getting PhD (from US or India, whatever) if they wish to go into fundamental research (i.e. not applied industrial research)? Do they work as a professor in some university and do their research simultaneously or do they work in government/private research companies or anything else?

A PhD in Physics is a bare minimum if you want to get into academia. You will most likely find it helpful (if not mandatory) to pursue at least one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postdoctoral_research" . In fact many jobs will require it. You will need to demonstrate that you can pursue independent research given adequate resources, and a postdoc is something between being guided (PhD) and guiding others (becoming a PhD guide yourself, or a lead researcher/professor).

Also please tell me if I do PhD in India then is it easy to get into such places in US (I mean just telephonic interview is possible) and do they sponsor my visa also? I think getting into US from India as a student is much easier than as a professional, am I right?

These really are not the kind of things you should worry about at this point. If you are admitted to a US university for a PhD or postdoc, their international student/scholars' office will help you through the visa application.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

That is indeed very useful information. Please also tell me, are there non-educational institutes which are into fundamental research (I mean not in industrial or applied research)? And what do theoretical physicist who wants to do fundamental research do for rest of their life? Just fundamental research or fundamental research with teaching or something else also? And how much do they earn approximately?

 

[DrummingAtom]

Hey maverick, I read some of your other posts and saw you went from EE to physics. I'm an EE and curious about how difficult the switch was. Did you take many physics classes during your EE undergrad? Did you do any undergrad research in physics or EE? Is there anything you would have done differently?

I'm going to focus on the more physics-y EE fields (semiconductor, optics, etc.) during my undergrad and do plan on getting into a physics/EE research group next year. All in all, I'm not 100% I'm going to grad school (for EE or physics) but I'd like to maybe have the option when I graduate. Thanks for any advice.