Gibbs Free Energy Change of a Reaction

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Gibbs free energy change of a reaction, specifically addressing the implications of constant chemical potentials in relation to the extent of a reaction. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of Gibbs free energy in chemical reactions, including its application in predicting work output.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the statement about constant chemical potentials, suggesting that if the extent of the reaction changes, the chemical potentials should also change.
  • Another participant provides an example of a continuous stirred tank reactor where the composition remains constant, implying that chemical potentials can remain constant despite ongoing reactions.
  • A participant notes that maintaining constant chemical potentials is often overlooked in discussions about Gibbs free energy, which typically emphasize constant temperature and pressure.
  • One participant explains a scenario where a reaction can occur near equilibrium with constant chemical potentials, using a specific example involving water synthesis from hydrogen and oxygen.
  • Another participant agrees that while constant pressure and temperature are easier to achieve, constant chemical potentials are more challenging, yet Gibbs free energy is still used to estimate work output from reactions.
  • A later reply emphasizes that during a reaction, such as burning hydrogen and oxygen, chemical potentials do change, necessitating integration of Gibbs free energy over the reaction coordinate to determine maximal work extraction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of constant chemical potentials in relation to Gibbs free energy and the conditions under which they can be maintained. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the extent to which these conditions affect the practical application of Gibbs free energy in predicting work output.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the assumptions regarding constant chemical potentials and the conditions necessary for applying Gibbs free energy in practical scenarios. The discussion reflects a range of interpretations and applications of these concepts without reaching a consensus.

Amok
Messages
254
Reaction score
1
So, in my thermo book, it says that the gibbs free energy change of a reaction is the free energy received by the system at constant T,p and constant chemical potential when the extent of the reaction varies by one mol. The part that is confusing me is the "constant chemical potentials"statement. If the extent of the reaction is changing, aren't the chemical potentials changing as well? Can the change in free energy of a reaction be used to predict how much work one can get out of a chemical reaction?
 
Chemistry news on Phys.org
Think of a reaction taking place in a continuous stirred tank reactor. The composition of the mixture in the tank remains constant and so do all the chemical potentials. Nevertheless, as both educts are continuously added and products removed, a chemical reaction is constantly taking place.
 
But that means you never reach an equilibrium state (unless you started at one). It's funny because people always seem to forget this when they talk about G free energy, they usually only mention constant T and P.
 
Yes, in equilibrium Delta G is zero. However, a chemical reaction can also occur (arbitrarily near) equilibrium with constant chemical potentials of the reactants.
Consider a reaction chamber which where H2 O2 and H2O are in equilibrium and H2 and O2 can diffuse into the chamber via semi-permeable membranes from their respective reservoirs and H2O can be removed by diffusion through a similar membrane semipermeable for water only.
By increasing infinitesimally the pressure (i.e. the chemical potentials) of H2 and O2 and reducing the pressure of H2O in the respective reservoirs you can synthesise an arbitrary amount of water reversibly with Delta G =0 and the chemical potentials of the components hold constant.
 
Yes, that's ture. I'm just saying that those conditions are not always present, and people still use delta-g to estimate how much useful work one can get out of chemical reaction. Having constant p and T is easy, having constant chemical potential is harder.
 
Yes, you are right. When you are burning a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen the chemical potentials change during that process and you have to integrate delta G over the reaction coordinate to get the maximal amount of work you can extract.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
Replies
19
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
5K