Gibbs free energy doesn't increase (constant T and P) - proof doesn't seem right

In summary, the conversation discussed the relationship between work done and Helmholtz Free Energy, as well as the definition of Gibbs free energy. It was concluded that for a system at constant temperature and pressure, the Gibbs free energy can never increase and is always equal to the sum of work done and the change in Helmholtz Free Energy. However, there was a question raised about the assumption that work done is always less than or equal to the change in Helmholtz Free Energy, and further clarification is needed to understand the proof. A possible explanation was also provided for why the Gibbs free energy cannot increase in processes at constant temperature and pressure.
  • #1
Silversonic
130
1
First my notes discover that for an isothermal transformation;

ΔW ≥ ΔF

Where W is the work done and F is the Helmholtz Free Energy, F = E - TS.


Then it defines the Gibbs free Energy;

G = F + PV

"For a system at constant temperature and pressure, G never increases";

So ΔG = ΔF + Δ(PV) = ΔF + PΔV = ΔF + ΔW


Then it says "We already know ΔW ≤ -ΔF and therefore ΔW + ΔF = ΔG ≤ 0".

But how can we assume ΔW ≤ -ΔF from the fact that ΔW ≥ ΔF? If ΔW is positive and |ΔW| ≥ |ΔF| then this assumption does not work, and also I have nothing that indicates to me the change in the work done is either positive or negative. I can't seem to show how this proof was meant to work otherwise though, any help?
 
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  • #2
Silversonic said:
First my notes discover that for an isothermal transformation;

ΔW ≥ ΔF

Where W is the work done and F is the Helmholtz Free Energy, F = E - TS.


Then it defines the Gibbs free Energy;

G = F + PV

"For a system at constant temperature and pressure, G never increases";

So ΔG = ΔF + Δ(PV) = ΔF + PΔV = ΔF + ΔW


Then it says "We already know ΔW ≤ -ΔF and therefore ΔW + ΔF = ΔG ≤ 0".

But how can we assume ΔW ≤ -ΔF from the fact that ΔW ≥ ΔF? If ΔW is positive and |ΔW| ≥ |ΔF| then this assumption does not work, and also I have nothing that indicates to me the change in the work done is either positive or negative. I can't seem to show how this proof was meant to work otherwise though, any help?



From what I can see...

[itex] dW = -PdV + \mu dN[/itex]
[itex] dE = dW + dQ = dW + T dS[/itex]

At constant temperature...

[itex]d F = d E - T dS = dW[/itex]
so
[itex]ΔF = ΔW[/itex].

I would be interested in knowing how you show
[itex]ΔF ≤ ΔW[/itex]



Also, there is an interesting way (which may be along the same lines as your notes) to show that the Gibbs free energy never increases in processes at constant temperature and pressure.

We note that in all processes where a system is in contact with a pressure and temperature reservoir, the system will evolve toward a state which maximizes the entropy of both system plus reservoir.

[itex]dS^{s+r} = dS^{s} + dS^{r} ≥0[/itex]
[itex]dS^{s} = (1/T^{s})*(dU^{s} + P^{s} dV^{s} - \mu^{s} dN^{s})[/itex]

With these two expressions and knowing that the temperature and pressure are the same for both system and reservoir, you can show that
[itex]dS^{s+r} = -(1/T^{s})*dG^{s}[/itex]
so that since the system inexorably tends to maximize the entropy of the universe (universe = system plus reservoir), it must also inexorably tend to minimize its Gibbs free energy for processes at constant temperature and pressure.

Anywhoo, that's why I'd say the Gibbs free energy of the system cannot increase for processes at constant temperature and pressure.

-James
 

1. What is Gibbs free energy and why is it important?

Gibbs free energy is a thermodynamic quantity that measures the amount of energy available to do work in a system. It is important because it helps us understand the spontaneity and stability of chemical reactions and processes.

2. How is Gibbs free energy related to temperature and pressure?

Gibbs free energy is dependent on both temperature and pressure. At constant temperature and pressure, the change in Gibbs free energy can determine whether a reaction or process is spontaneous or not.

3. Why does Gibbs free energy not increase at constant temperature and pressure?

In a closed system at constant temperature and pressure, the change in Gibbs free energy is equal to the change in enthalpy minus the temperature multiplied by the change in entropy. If the enthalpy and entropy change in opposite directions, they can cancel each other out and result in no change in Gibbs free energy.

4. What is the proof that shows Gibbs free energy doesn't increase at constant temperature and pressure?

The proof is based on the mathematical equation for change in Gibbs free energy at constant temperature and pressure, as well as experimental observations that have consistently shown no increase in Gibbs free energy under these conditions.

5. How does this concept apply to real-world situations?

The concept of Gibbs free energy not increasing at constant temperature and pressure is applicable to various real-world situations, such as predicting the spontaneity of chemical reactions and determining the stability of systems. It is also used in industries such as pharmaceuticals and chemical engineering to optimize processes and reactions.

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