Gibbs Free Energy, How to find G with only Hstand and Gstand

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the Gibbs free energy change for the decomposition of Ag2O(s) at 500K, using given standard enthalpy and Gibbs free energy values. Participants explore the relationship between Gibbs free energy, enthalpy, and entropy, while addressing the challenge of determining the entropy value needed for the calculation.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Participants express uncertainty about how to calculate Gibbs free energy without knowing the entropy value (ΔS).
  • One participant mentions using the equation ΔG = ΔH - TΔS but struggles to find ΔS and subsequently ΔG.
  • Another participant attempts to derive ΔS from the given values and applies it to find ΔG, but arrives at a negative value, questioning its correctness.
  • There is a clarification that the problem asks for the Gibbs free energy of decomposition, not formation, which may affect the interpretation of the results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that ΔS is necessary for the calculation of ΔG, but there is no consensus on how to correctly derive or apply it in this context. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct approach to the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that standard conditions typically refer to a temperature of 298.15K, but the problem specifies a different temperature (500K), which may influence the calculations. There is also a lack of clarity on how to correctly interpret the values provided for Gibbs free energy and enthalpy in relation to the decomposition process.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students studying thermodynamics, particularly those grappling with Gibbs free energy calculations and the relationships between enthalpy, entropy, and temperature in chemical reactions.

royblaze
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Homework Statement



For the decomposition of Ag2O(s), what is the Gibbs free energy change at 500K (assuming delta H and delta S do not vary with temparature?

delta standard Gformation: -61.0 kJ/mol
delta standard Hformation: -29.7 kJ/mol

Homework Equations



deltaG = deltaH - T(deltaS)

The Attempt at a Solution



I'm just not sure about how to do this. I had asked a TA how to do this question, he used the G = H - TS and solved for S, then fit it back in, but that doesn't DO anything other than prove his equation true... I looked it up on the internet, found some Gibbs HelmHoltz equation. But we've never learned that ANYWHERE: how am I supposed to solve this one WITHOUT the HelmHoltz equation?!
 
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royblaze said:
For the decomposition of Ag2O(s), what is the Gibbs free energy change at 500K (assuming delta H[/color] and delta S[/color] do not vary with temparature?

delta standard Gformation: -61.0 kJ/mol
delta standard Hformation: -29.7 kJ/mol

Homework Equations



deltaG = deltaH[/color] - T(deltaS)[/color]

You have delta G as a function of two constants and T...
 
So you need delta S, no?

How do you do it then? I'm still lost. I tried solving for delta S and fitting it back into find a new delta G, but I am not getting the right answer.
 
royblaze said:
So you need delta S, no?

How do you do it then? I'm still lost. I tried solving for delta S and fitting it back into find a new delta G, but I am not getting the right answer.

What value of \Delta S did you get? Perhaps you're using the wrong temperature for standard conditions?
 
Okay so I have:

G = H - T*S

So for standard conditions, the T = 298.15K

-61 = -29.7 - T*S

S = (-61 + 29.7) / (-298.15) = .1049807144 KJ/mol-K

But S is in J/mol-k, so S = 104.9807144 J/mol-k

Then:

G = (-29.7) - (500)(104.9807144 J/mol-K)(1 kJ/1000J) = -82.1903572 kJ/mol

Is that right? The answer was +82.2 kJ/mol, though. Why is my answer negative?
 
You found the Gibbs free energy of formation. The problem asks about decomposition.
 
Ah, thank you so much. :biggrin:
 

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