Good at math but suck at puzzles

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between proficiency in mathematics and the ability to solve puzzles or riddles. Participants explore whether skills in puzzles are relevant to studying mathematics and seek advice on improving puzzle-solving abilities.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses concern about their difficulty with puzzles despite performing well in mathematics tests, questioning the relevance of puzzle-solving skills to a mathematics degree.
  • Another participant argues that success in puzzles does not necessarily correlate with mathematical ability, suggesting that abstract reasoning is more indicative of mathematical skill.
  • Recommendations are made for studying a book on abstract algebra to improve mathematical understanding, with one participant noting that the book should be accessible to high school students.
  • Several participants discuss the specifics of the riddle presented, with varying proposed solutions and methods for measuring the time accurately using hourglasses.
  • One participant inquires about the age appropriateness of the recommended book, indicating their current educational level in the UK.
  • Another participant mentions their experience with calculus, suggesting that high school mathematics may not fully represent one's mathematical abilities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that puzzle-solving skills and mathematical ability may not be directly related, but there is no consensus on the significance of puzzles in relation to studying mathematics. Multiple competing views on the relevance of puzzles and the best approaches to improve skills remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the difficulty of the recommended book and its suitability for their current educational level. The discussion also highlights varying interpretations of the riddle and its solution, indicating differing levels of familiarity with such problems.

synkk
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Now I'm thinking of studying mathematics or a mathematics related subject at university, however i can't seem to let go how bad i am at puzzles/riddles. In maths tests I always get a good grade (90%+), I read around the subject etc and genuinely really enjoy it, however when i get a puzzle or a riddle which are online or in a book, i just can't do it.

For example:

"You need to boil eggs for exactly 9 minutes or else the visiting Duchess will
complain, and you will lose your job as head chef.
But you have only 2 Hourglasses, one measures 7-minutes, and the other
measures 4-minutes. How can you correctly measure 9 minutes?"

I couldn't figure that out, i had to look online to find the solution.

Is riddles/puzzles like this at all related to a mathematics degree? Is there anyway i could improve on these skills, or are people just naturally good at these things.
 
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Performing well in puzzles doesn't really say much about an ability in mathematics. Somebody who is very good in puzzles might not be good with the abstract reasoning of mathematics.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you really want to measure your ability to do mathematics, get a good math book and work through it. I like to recommend "a book of abstract algebra" by Pinter. If you enjoy the proofs and if you can work through the exercises moderately well, then you should be ok.

Also, if you work through the Pinter book, you will be more ready to solve the riddle in question. The riddle in the OP is an example of a Diophantine equation, which are not at all easy to solve in general.
 
micromass said:
Performing well in puzzles doesn't really say much about an ability in mathematics. Somebody who is very good in puzzles might not be good with the abstract reasoning of mathematics.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you really want to measure your ability to do mathematics, get a good math book and work through it. I like to recommend "a book of abstract algebra" by Pinter. If you enjoy the proofs and if you can work through the exercises moderately well, then you should be ok.

Also, if you work through the Pinter book, you will be more ready to solve the riddle in question. The riddle in the OP is an example of a Diophantine equation, which are not at all easy to solve in general.

It's just that, even easy ones i find difficult, but I'll try not to worry about it too much.

The book you suggested, at what age is it aimed for? I'm in lower sixth form in the UK (age 16-18) which i think is senior in high school?
 
synkk said:
It's just that, even easy ones i find difficult, but I'll try not to worry about it too much.

The book you suggested, at what age is it aimed for? I'm in lower sixth form in the UK (age 16-18) which i think is senior in high school?

Abstract algebra is a topic which is usually taught in university. But I feel that the book I suggested should be good for high-schoolers. The exercises won't always be easy though.
 
May I ask what the answer to the riddle is? sorry to interrupt :P
 
In maths tests I always get a good grade (90%+)

Have you taken calculus yet? Much of the math you see in high school isn't so much math as it is calculation/accounting. I'd take a wait and see approach- keep doing what you are doing, and take some math courses when you get to university and see if you like them.

TheKracken said:
May I ask what the answer to the riddle is? sorry to interrupt :P

Run the 7 and the 4 minute together. When the 4 minute runs out, flip it over (you now have three minutes remaining in the 7).

When the 7 minute now runs out start cooking (you now have a minute left in the 4 minute timer).

When the four runs out, you've cooked for one minute. You can now use the 4 minute twice to time the remaining 8 minutes.
 
Why not just run the 7 minute, and then run half of the 4 minute?
 
tahayassen said:
Why not just run the 7 minute, and then run half of the 4 minute?

How will you know that half of the 4 minutes passed?? The 9 minutes must be measured EXACTLY.
 
The Answer to the Riddle:

First thing you do is start both hourglasses.
After the 4 minute one runs out of sand, immediately turn it over to start it again.
After the 7 minute one runs out of sand, place the 4 minute one on its side to halt its progress. The 4 minute one should have one minute left.

Now, since you know the 4 minute timer has one minute left, you may now cook the egg. Each time the 4 minute timer runs out you turn it over again until you get the desired amount of time. In this case since you have 1 minute left on the timer you can add 4 minutes twice for a total of 9 minutes
 
  • #10
Yes, we've started calculus, but nothing hard yet.
 

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