GR: Gravitational Forces Represented by Christoffel Symbols

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around how gravitational forces are represented by Christoffel symbols in General Relativity (GR). Participants explore the implications of this representation, its mathematical formulation, and the challenges associated with defining gravitational forces in various coordinate systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that gravitational forces in GR are represented by a subset of Christoffel symbols, specifically Γxtt, Γytt, and Γztt, arguing this aligns with the principle of equivalence.
  • Another participant questions the arbitrary nature of Christoffel symbols due to coordinate choice and suggests specifying a particular type of coordinates to define gravitational forces more clearly.
  • Concerns are raised about distinguishing between different inertial forces experienced in various situations, such as in a turning car versus standing still, which may not be adequately addressed by the proposed definition.
  • Some participants note that the "right" choice of coordinate system is dependent on the spacetime rather than the body's motion, emphasizing the importance of static coordinates in certain cases.
  • There is a discussion about the applicability of Fermi normal coordinates, with some arguing that they only apply along geodesics and that a more general method is needed to relate Christoffel symbols to gravitational forces.
  • One participant highlights that while the Christoffel symbols provide information about acceleration, they do not account for the curvature of spacetime, which is captured in higher-order terms.
  • Another participant reflects on the global versus local perspectives of defining gravitational force, suggesting that local frame fields may yield different interpretations of gravitational acceleration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the representation of gravitational forces by Christoffel symbols, with no consensus reached. There are competing perspectives on the role of coordinate systems and the implications for defining gravitational forces.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence of Christoffel symbols on coordinate choice, the unresolved nature of how to define gravitational forces across different observers, and the complexity of relating local and global perspectives in GR.

  • #31
Mentz114 said:
Sure, that's flat but \Gamma^x_{tt}={g}^{2}\,x which is not what is required.
But for a stationary worldline in Rindler coordinates
{\Gamma^{x}}_{\lambda \nu} U^{\lambda} U^{\nu} = \frac{1}{x}
which is what is required.
 
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  • #32
Mentz114 said:
Have you checked this ? I still assert it has a non-zero Einstein tensor. Are we talking about the same metric ?

ds^2={dt}^{2}\,\left( -2\,g\,x-1\right) +{dz}^{2}+{dy}^{2}+{dx}^{2}

I did check, and it did have a nonzero stress-energy tensor,

There are alternate formulations of the Rindler metric, but the one I usually use is

ds^2={dt}^{2}\,\left(-g^2\,x^2 -2\,g\,x-1\right) +{dz}^{2}+{dy}^{2}+{dx}^{2}
 
  • #33
DaleSpam said:
This is correct. The reason is because it is not directly the Christoffel symbol which is equal to the fictitious force. If you look at the equation for the four-acceleration you see:
A^{\mu}=\frac{dU^\mu}{d\tau}+<br /> {\Gamma^{\mu}}_{\lambda \nu} U^{\lambda} U^{\nu}
Where U is the four-velocity (unit tangent vector) as a function of the proper time, τ. I haven't worked it for Rindler yet, but when you contract with U^{\lambda} U^{\nu} you should get the correct expression.

In general, when you expand the Christoffel symbol terms, you can consider any of those to be fictitious forces (divided by mass). You could also consider them to be coordinate accelerations. There is no general way to distinguish the two other than what side of Newton's second law equation you write them on, it is simply a matter of preference and whim.

I think this hit the nail on the head. Thanks - it serves as a much better definition of four acceleration.

On a somewhat related note, if we consider \nabla_a u^b, we know that multiplying by u^a gives us the 4-acceleration, which is what motivates the above result. What would we need to do to get the information about the rate of rotation an observer moving along the worldline would experience? I'm guessing that it's also buried in this expression.
 
  • #34
pervect said:
. What would we need to do to get the information about the rate of rotation an observer moving along the worldline would experience? I'm guessing that it's also buried in this expression.
I don't know. I would guess that you would need to parallel transport the rank three angular momentum tensor along the worldline. If you expand it in terms of the Christoffel symbols then you could interpret those terms as being due to the fictitious gravitational forces in the particular coordinate system.
 
  • #35
pervect said:
I think this hit the nail on the head. Thanks - it serves as a much better definition of four acceleration.

On a somewhat related note, if we consider \nabla_a u^b, we know that multiplying by u^a gives us the 4-acceleration, which is what motivates the above result. What would we need to do to get the information about the rate of rotation an observer moving along the worldline would experience? I'm guessing that it's also buried in this expression.
You are right, the rotation is given by the rank-2 antisymmetric tensor
<br /> \omega_{ab}= \nabla_{[a}u_{b]}+\dot{u}_{[a}u_{b]}<br />
where \dot{u}_{a} = \nabla_b u_a u^b. The axis of rotation and the angular velocity can be found from the vorticity vector (1/2)\epsilon^{abmi}u_b\omega_{mi}.
 
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