Gravitation as answer to whether the Universe is infinite?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether the universe is infinite, using gravitational principles as a basis for argument. Participants explore implications of Newton's law of universal gravitation and related concepts, considering both theoretical and conceptual aspects of gravity in an infinite universe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if the universe were infinite, the gravitational force would also be infinite, leading to complications in the application of Newton's laws.
  • Another participant draws a parallel to Olbers' paradox, indicating that gravity propagates at the speed of light, which may relate to the discussion of an infinite universe.
  • A different viewpoint argues that while gravity propagates at the speed of light, the static gravitational field around a mass does not, likening it to electric charge and invoking Gauss's law.
  • Some participants propose that if there is infinite mass surrounding an observer, the gravitational forces would cancel out, resulting in no net gravitational pull in any direction.
  • One participant raises a concern that the implications of Gauss's law suggest the universe's expansion should be slowing down, which contradicts observations of accelerating expansion, hinting at the existence of a repulsive force or negative energy density.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of gravitational forces in an infinite universe, with no consensus reached on whether the universe is finite or infinite. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of infinity and gravitational concepts, and there are references to unresolved mathematical implications and dependencies on definitions of mass and force.

ojbway
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I recently watched a video by SpaceRip on YouTube addressing whether or not the Universe is infinite. They mentioned an example as to why it isn't briefly, but didn't expand on it. I kept thinking that its a good reason and I want your opinion on it.

Since Newton's law of universal gravition follows the equation F = G * (m1m2)/r2 (force = gravitational constant times the mass of the two bodies divided by the distance squared, then that means that your gravitational pull is affecting every object in the universe, no matter how far away, and the same for every object in the universe on you.

So, if the universe was infinite, and from that we assume there is an infinite amount of matter to fill an infinite universe, then that would mean that F is infinite. If F is infinite, then the equation F = ma (force = mass times acceleration) becomes a little wonky I think.

One opposing argument that may come up is that there is infinite force in all directions, therefore the net force would be zero? I'm no expert in infinity math, and I know that some relationships between two constants would not be the same for two infinities. So that statement is most likely flawed, but even if not, my argument is that we know that portions of the universe, say our solar system, does not have an equal distribution of matter in all directions. And furthermore, that distribution changes all the time, with orbits and whatnot.

My overarching question is: is this a good reason why the universe could be stated as finite?

I'm but a humble 11th grade in 12th grade honors physics taught by none other than Mr. Newman, but he did teach me Newton's law of universal gravitation. This just makes sense in my mind. I'm leaving for the night. I hope that when I come back, all you bright minds (no sarcasm intended) will shed some light on this topic. Thanks! :D
 
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No. This is different. Even though changes in gravity propagate at the speed of light, the static field around any mass is already there and doesn't propagate. It's more analogous to the electric charge than to light. Gauss's law/Poisson's equation is supposed to hold even if light from a charge hasn't had time to reach you.

I think the solution is that since there is infinite mass surrounding you from all directions, the acceleration from all of them cancel out and you are not pulled in any direction. I don't understand General Relativity very well, but with Newtonian gravity we can use Gauss's law. If you draw a big sphere around some region of space, by Gauss's law, only the mass inside the sphere affects the gravitational flux. As long as we can invoke directional symmetry, it doesn't matter if there is infinite mass outside the sphere.
 
I think this Gauss's law argument also suggests that the expansion of the universe ought to be slowing down, because if you define a gaussian sphere, the acceleration is pointed inward so everything is being pulled together.
But we have measurements that suggest the universe expansion is accelerating. So there is some kind of repulsive force which acts like a negative energy density.
 

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