Accelerating Universe and spherical distribution of matter

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between a spherical distribution of matter, gravitational forces, and the cosmological constant in the context of the accelerating expansion of the universe. Participants explore theoretical implications, mathematical formulations, and the conditions under which these forces might balance.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a spherical distribution of matter could reach a state where gravitational force and cosmological-constant force are equal, questioning if this correlates with the onset of the universe's accelerating expansion.
  • Others argue that the Einstein static universe is a solution to the field equations with a cosmological constant, but this state is unstable and requires precise conditions to be achieved.
  • A participant raises the question of whether the time taken for a volume of matter to grow to a size where these forces balance corresponds to the age of the universe when acceleration began.
  • Some contributions clarify that gravity and the cosmological constant are not "forces" in General Relativity, prompting questions about the interpretation of the equations involved.
  • There is a discussion about the applicability of the Friedmann equations to local distributions of matter, with some asserting that these equations describe a universe filled with uniform density matter rather than localized groups of galaxies.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the values of the cosmological constant needed to achieve a static condition, suggesting that the actual observed value is insufficient for such a state to be realized.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the stability of the static universe, the relevance of the Friedmann equations to local matter distributions, and the implications of balancing gravitational and cosmological forces. No consensus is reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific assumptions regarding the nature of matter distributions and the applicability of the Friedmann equations to various scenarios. The discussion highlights unresolved mathematical steps and the complexity of relating local conditions to global cosmological behavior.

Ranku
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If we take a spherical distribution of matter wherein gravitational force and cosmological-constant force are equal upon an object on its surface, then does the time that it took for that volume to grow to the size wherein the two forces are equal match the time it took for the universe to start to expand acceleratingly?
 
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Einstein introduced cosmological constant to realize the case you say. He intended to explain eternal constant universe by it i.e. without both before it and after it. I suppose this balanced case is not stable and not on the path of progress of universe though I have no mathematical credit here now.
 
Ranku said:
If we take a spherical distribution of matter wherein gravitational force and cosmological-constant force are equal upon an object on its surface

Gravity and the cosmological constant aren't "forces" in GR. By "forces are equal", do you mean that an object on the surface of the matter distribution is staying at the same radial coordinate and is in free fall (i.e., feels no weight)?

Ranku said:
the time that it took for that volume to grow to the size

Why would you expect the volume to be growing? What solution of the EFE are you talking about?
 
PeterDonis said:
Gravity and the cosmological constant aren't "forces" in GR. By "forces are equal", do you mean that an object on the surface of the matter distribution is staying at the same radial coordinate and is in free fall (i.e., feels no weight)?
Why would you expect the volume to be growing? What solution of the EFE are you talking about?
We start with the second Friedmann equation

a"/a = - 4πG/3 (ρ+3p/c2) + Λc2/3

which can be recast as the equation of motion of mass m on the surface of an expanding spherical distribution of matter M and radius R ≡ a

R" = - GM/R2 + Λc2/3 R

We would therefore expect that there is a 'standard volume' of mass M where gravitational and cosmological-constant acceleration upon m would be equal at a certain radial distance R.

My question is if we start at the time where galaxies were first formed and consider a 'minimal' volume of M, and as the universe expanded and the 'standard volume' of M was reached, whereby gravitational and cosmological-constant acceleration were equal upon m, does the time it took for that to happen roughly correspond to the age of the universe when it started to expand acceleratingly? In other words, should not there be a correlation between when local acceleration of m starts in standard volume M due to cosmological-constant acceleration, with when the accelerating expansion of the universe started?
 
Ranku said:
We would therefore expect that there is a 'standard volume' of mass M where gravitational and cosmological-constant acceleration upon m would be equal at a certain radial distance R.

You are misunderstanding what this equation is telling you. This equation is telling you that the Einstein static universe is a solution of the field equation with cosmological constant. If you have the right conditions for ##R'' = 0##, those conditions are true for every value of ##R## at that same instant of time. So the entire universe is static at that instant of time.

However, this static state is unstable; a small perturbation in either direction leads to expansion or collapse. That also means that, even in a universe in which there are values of the matter/energy density and ##\Lambda## that make such a static state reachable, it is astronomically unlikely to actually be reached; it would require astronomically precise fine-tuning of conditions.

Finally, if you do the math to calculate what value of the cosmological constant ##\Lambda## would be required to satisfy the ##R'' = 0## condition with the density of matter and energy in our present universe, you would find that that value is much larger than the actual value of ##\Lambda## we observe. So our universe does not even have appropriate values of density and ##\Lambda## to make the static condition reachable at all, even in principle.
 
PeterDonis said:
Finally, if you do the math to calculate what value of the cosmological constant Λ would be required to satisfy the R″=0 condition with the density of matter and energy in our present universe, you would find that that value is much larger than the actual value of Λ we observe. So our universe does not even have appropriate values of density and Λ to make the static condition reachable at all, even in principle.
Do you mean R"=0 is unattainable in a 'local' spherical distribution of matter, such as in a group of galaxies?
 
Ranku said:
Do you mean R"=0 is unattainable in a 'local' spherical distribution of matter, such as in a group of galaxies?

A "local" spherical distribution of matter, such as a group of galaxies, surrounded by vacuum, is not described by the Friedmann equation, so none of what you've said is relevant to such a case.
 
PeterDonis said:
A "local" spherical distribution of matter, such as a group of galaxies, surrounded by vacuum, is not described by the Friedmann equation, so none of what you've said is relevant to such a case.
So do you mean that when we consider a spherical distribution of matter, we are considering all the matter in the entire observable universe?
 
If you are applying the Friedmann equations then you are considering a universe completely filled with uniform density matter. That's spherically symmetric, rather than a spherical distribution of matter.

If you tune ##\Lambda## to balance out expansion, as Einstein did and you seem to be trying to do, you will find that any region of any shape anywhere does not expand.
 
  • #10
Ranku said:
do you mean that when we consider a spherical distribution of matter, we are considering all the matter in the entire observable universe?

Not just the observable universe, the entire universe. That is what the Friedmann equations apply to: an entire universe filled with matter whose density is the same everywhere at an instant of time.
 

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