Gravitation of heavy particles

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    Gravitation Particles
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of heavy particles produced in high-energy collisions and their potential manifestation in low-energy conditions, particularly in relation to gravitational effects and dark matter. Participants explore theoretical implications and the stability of these particles in various contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that heavy particles might only manifest their gravitational mass in low-energy conditions, suggesting a connection to dark matter.
  • Others argue that heavy particles do not manifest their gravitational mass as particles in low-energy conditions, emphasizing that low energy is associated with geometry and that heavy particles are pointlike and relevant in high-energy contexts.
  • One participant notes that heavy particles are not "hidden" but rather unstable, decaying before detection in experiments, complicating the extraction of predictions from particle physics theories.
  • A later reply questions whether bosons of the weak force could be observed in naturally occurring weak interactions, suggesting that accelerator experiments are designed to produce these particles in detectable quantities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the nature of heavy particles and their manifestation in low-energy conditions. Multiple competing views remain regarding their stability and detection.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the conditions under which heavy particles can be detected and the implications for theories of dark matter. The discussion reflects limitations in understanding the stability and interactions of heavy particles in different energy regimes.

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Heavy particles produced in high energy collisions in accelerators are 'hidden' in normal low energy conditions. Might heavy particles manifest only their gravitational mass in normal low energy conditions, even as they remain otherwise 'hidden'?

Could dark matter be high-energy heavy particles that are manifesting only their gravitational mass in normal low energy conditions?
 
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''Do heavy particles manifest their gravitational mass as particles in normal low energy conditions, even though they are otherwise 'hidden'?''

No. Low energy conditions are associated to geometry. Heavy particles are presumably pointlike, so what concerns their individual states are high energy conditions. If i get your meaning correctly. So effectively, they obtained mass just like any other quantized model for particles which is concerned with high-energy conditions rather than low ones corresponding to geometry. This is called quantum graphity.

''Could dark matter be heavy particles that are manifesting only their gravitational mass as particles in normal low energy conditions?''

No, because theoretically, heavy particles can still interact with the electromagnetic force. Their detection via other means would have been present if they were the general cause.
 
The answer's still definitely no, but I'm not sure how helpful the last post was...

Heavy particles aren't "hidden" per se; they just don't generally exist in conditions because they aren't stable. They are in fact so unstable that when they're created in particle collisions, even moving at (a very large fraction of) the speed of light, they decay before they reach the detectors.
The process of extracting predictions from particle physics theories is for this reason a pretty difficult business that goes under the name of phenomenology; it's been compared to trying to recreate how a swiss watch works by analysing the cogs that fly out when you smash it with a sledgehammer.
 
muppet said:
The answer's still definitely no, but I'm not sure how helpful the last post was...

Heavy particles aren't "hidden" per se; they just don't generally exist in conditions because they aren't stable. They are in fact so unstable that when they're created in particle collisions, even moving at (a very large fraction of) the speed of light, they decay before they reach the detectors.
The process of extracting predictions from particle physics theories is for this reason a pretty difficult business that goes under the name of phenomenology; it's been compared to trying to recreate how a swiss watch works by analysing the cogs that fly out when you smash it with a sledgehammer.

Just so I am clear on this let me ask with a real example. The bosons of the weak force, W and Z were discovered (by their decay products) by colliding protons and antiprotons in an accelerator. In principle, could these bosons be also observed (by their decay products) in naturally occurring weak interactions? In other words, was the accelerator experiment to detect the bosons done only so as to be able to produce them copiously and make them more likely to be detected?
 

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