Gravitational Force: F=G\frac{mM}{r^2} & M'=\frac{Mr^3}{R^3}

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around gravitational force and mass distribution within a sphere, specifically focusing on the formula for gravitational force outside and inside a sphere. The original poster attempts to understand how to derive the formula M'=\frac{Mr^3}{R^3}, which relates the mass inside a radius r to the total mass M of the sphere with radius R.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between mass and volume under the assumption of uniform density. They question how to mathematically derive the formula for M' and discuss the implications of mass being proportional to volume.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of the mathematical relationships involved in deriving M' from M. Some participants provide hints and suggest comparing volumes of spheres, while others express confusion about the implications of the derived ratios. Guidance has been offered on using density and volume formulas, but no consensus has been reached on the derivation process.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the assumption of uniform density and are attempting to clarify the definitions and relationships between total mass and partial mass within the context of gravitational physics.

aloshi
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Gravitational force on mass m outside a sphere with mass M is given by [tex]F=G\frac{mM}{r^2}[/tex], where r is the distance to the center of mass. Gravity inside the sphere surface because of the mass distribution, since only the portion of the sphere mass is inside r contributes to the attraction. If the Earth's density is constant (which it definitely is not), so given the mass inside r of [tex]M'=\frac{Mr^3}{R^3}[/tex], where R is Earth radius. Gravitational force in the Earth's surface (r less than R) thus becomes: [tex]F=G\frac{mMr}{R^3}[/tex]

my question is how can we prove/shown formula [tex]M'=\frac{Mr^3}{R^3}[/tex]??
 
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Hint: What fraction of the total spherical volume does the mass < r occupy?
 
Doc Al said:
Hint: What fraction of the total spherical volume does the mass < r occupy?

what does mean with occupy?
 
aloshi said:
what does mean with occupy?
Occupy means 'take up', but I'll restate it differently. Since you assume uniform density, the mass is proportional to the volume. Compare the volume of a sphere of radius = r to one of radius = R.
 
Doc Al said:
Occupy means 'take up', but I'll restate it differently. Since you assume uniform density, the mass is proportional to the volume. Compare the volume of a sphere of radius = r to one of radius = R.

I can not really understand how to get
[tex]M’= \frac{Mr^3 }{R^3}[/tex]
“the mass is proportional to the volume” = [tex]M(V)=\rho \frac{4\pi r^2}{3}[/tex]
if we write [tex]M(V)= \frac{\rho4\pi }{3}\cdot r^2[/tex]
[tex]\frac{\rho4\pi }{3}=k[/tex]
k=constant
[tex]M(r)=k\cdot r^2[/tex]

can you show me mathematical how I can get [tex]M’= \frac{Mr^3 }{R^3}[/tex]
 
aloshi said:
if we write [tex]M(V)= \frac{\rho4\pi }{3}\cdot r^2[/tex]
That should be:

[tex]M(V)= \frac{\rho4\pi }{3}\cdot r^3[/tex]

Compare the total mass MR (where radius = R) to the partial mass Mr (where radius = r).
 
Doc Al said:
That should be:

[tex]M(V)= \frac{\rho4\pi }{3}\cdot r^3[/tex]

Compare the total mass MR (where radius = R) to the partial mass Mr (where radius = r).

but there is no evidence that the mass is [tex]M'=\frac{Mr^3}{R^3}[/tex]
can you show me mathematical, so I can understand
 
aloshi said:
but there is no evidence that the mass is [tex]M'=\frac{Mr^3}{R^3}[/tex]
can you show me mathematical, so I can understand
What does M equal? (Use the formula for density times volume.)
What does M' equal? (Use the formula for density times volume.)

Then just divide M' by M and see what you get.
 
Doc Al said:
What does M equal? (Use the formula for density times volume.)
What does M' equal? (Use the formula for density times volume.)

Then just divide M' by M and see what you get.



[tex]M=\rho \frac{4\pi \cdot R^3}{3}\\[/tex]
[tex]M'=\rho \frac{4\pi r^3}{3}[/tex]
[tex]\frac{M'}{M}=\frac{\rho \frac{4\pi r^3}{3}}{\rho \frac{4\pi \cdot R^3}{3}}[/tex]

this does not give us the mass, this give is the share
 
  • #10
Finish the division--canceling things that can be canceled--and you'll get the formula you want.
 
  • #11
Doc Al said:
Finish the division--canceling things that can be canceled--and you'll get the formula you want.

[tex]\frac{M'}{M}=\frac{r^3}{R^3}[/tex]
but that's not what I want, this give me the share, not the new mass
 
  • #12
aloshi said:
[tex]\frac{M'}{M}=\frac{r^3}{R^3}[/tex]
but that's not what I want, this give me the share, not the new mass
Multiply both sides by M.
 

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