Gravitational force Sun/Sirius > Earth/Sun?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the gravitational force between the Sun and the Sirius system, exploring the implications of a hypothesis that the Sun may be a binary twin of Sirius. Participants engage in calculations related to gravitational force, comparing it to the force between the Sun and Earth, and examining the significance of these forces given the vast distances involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a calculation of the gravitational force between the Sun and Sirius, suggesting it to be approximately 1.194x10^23 Newtons, based on their understanding of the gravitational formula.
  • Another participant questions the denominator used in the initial calculation, suggesting it should be significantly larger, leading to a revised estimate of the force being around 10^18 Newtons.
  • A third participant provides an alternative calculation using a gravitational force calculator, arriving at a value of about 8x10^16 Newtons and discussing the resulting accelerations on both the Sun and Sirius.
  • There is a recognition that the initial calculations may have incorrectly considered the entire Sirius system rather than just one star, prompting further adjustments to the force estimates.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the calculations and the significance of the gravitational forces involved, with no consensus reached on the correct values or implications of the findings.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential issues with the assumptions made in the calculations, particularly regarding the distances and masses involved, but do not resolve these uncertainties.

andehpandeh
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I just watched the first 10 minutes of a documentary that seemed to touch on Walter Crutenberg's premise of our Sun being a binary twin of Sirius. Sirius A and B are separated by (at most) ~31 AU (1 AU = distance from Earth to Sun, 149,598,500 km). The Sirius system is 8.6 ly from Earth.

Distance traveled in a year = speed in km/sec X seconds
= 9,467,280,000,000 km = 1 Light Year

1 AU = 149,598,500 km

9,467,280,000,000 km
___________________ = 63,284.6 AU's in a LY
149,598,500 km

Now let's measure the gravitational force between the two systems:

F = Gm1m2
_________=
r^2
G is the gravitational constant, M1 is the mass of the Sun, M2 is the mass of the Sirius system ~ 3x the mass of our Sun.

F = (6.6726x10^-11)(1.989×10^30kg)(5.963x10^30kg)
___________________________________________________=
8.142x10^13km

= 1.194x10^23 Newtons
By comparison, the Sun/Earth force is 3.54x10^22 Newtons

My hypothesis was that the force between the Sun and Sirius would be insignificant given the vast expanse between them. Is there something the matter with my maths?
 
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andehpandeh said:
F = (6.6726x10^-11)(1.989×10^30kg)(5.963x10^30kg)
___________________________________________________=
8.142x10^13km

= 1.194x10^23 Newtons

This doesn't look right.
How did you come up with the number in the denominator?
Just by looking at it, it should be something like ~10^50 in the numerator, and ~10^32(in metres) in the denominator(~10^16m squared). So the force is in the order of 10^18N.

But even apart from that, remember that the force is proportional to mass. Divide that answer by the mass of one star to get the feel for the strength of the gravitational field produced by the other(aka the acceleration felt by a test particle) at that distance.
 
A gravitational force calculator gives me about 8x1016 Newtons of force between the two. This is an acceleration on the Sun of about 4.05x10-14 m/s2, and about half that for Sirius since it's about twice as massive as the Sun. Hopefully I got my input numbers correct.

Edit: Hmm. I just noticed you used the SYSTEM, not just the one star.

Ok, now I'm getting about 1.2x1017 Newtons of force, with 6x10-14 m/s2of acceleration on the Sun, and 1/3 that for the Sirius system.
 
Last edited:
Thread locked. Please read the rules, andehpandeh.
 

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