The gravitational tug of the Sun and the Moon on Earth - a question

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of tides on Earth, specifically addressing why there are two high tides each day and the gravitational interactions between the Earth, the Moon, and the Sun. Participants explore the underlying physics of tidal forces and the implications of gravitational pull from these celestial bodies.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why there are two high tides and suggests that the gravitational pull of the Sun and Moon creates a differential effect on Earth, leading to high tides on both sides.
  • Another participant references external sources for additional insights on tidal forces and their explanations.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the direction of the Moon's gravitational pull on the far side of Earth, questioning why it appears directed away from the Moon rather than towards it.
  • One response clarifies that it is not that the rock on the far side is pulled away from the Sun, but rather that the Earth is pulled away from that rock due to the differential gravitational forces acting on different parts of Earth.
  • A later reply indicates that the explanation provided has helped clarify the participant's understanding of the situation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion includes multiple competing views and remains unresolved regarding the precise mechanics of tidal forces and the directionality of gravitational pulls. Participants express varying levels of understanding and confusion about the concepts involved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants acknowledge potential misconceptions in their understanding of gravitational forces and tidal effects, indicating that further clarification may be needed.

shirvanshah
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Hi! When it comes to physics, I'm a total layperson (so, please, be kind ;-)), I actually study English, but recently my interest in physics has been growing more and more. So, yesterday I started watching the first of Feynman's Cornell University lectures. And that led me to the question: why there are two high tides each day? What's especially striking to me is that there are two high tides simultaneously, I mean, on both "sides" of the Earth at the same time. So, I tried to get some insight on that, and I've found the following paper: http://www.jal.cc.il.us/~mikolajsawicki/tides_new2.pdf
And what is quite perplexing here is the following passage:
Consider the point C on Earth closest to the Sun and the point F on a far side of Earth. The
Sun pulls harder on a unit mass at the point C, not as hard on a unit mass at Earth center O,
and weaker yet on a unit mass at point F. The acceleration as of Earth as a whole in free fall
towards the Sun is determined by the gravitational pull of the Sun on Earth’s center. Hence
the unit mass at C has a tendency to accelerate towards the Sun with acceleration as + as,
i.e. more than the center of Earth, while a mass at the far side F has a tendency to accelerate towards the Sun with acceleration as - as, i.e. to lag behind the center of Earth.
This difference in Solar gravitational pulls would have lead to a disintegration of Earth, had
Earth’s own gravity been to weak to hold Earth together. To an observer on Earth it would have looked like rocks at point C and F were lifted away from the surface of Earth.

And I believe it's a very similar case with the Moon's gravitational pull and this is why there are two high tides. So, my question is this - why the rocks at point F would be lifted away from the Sun and not pulled in the direction of Sun, that is, towards Earth's center? Why the direction of that force is not in the same direction as the gravitational pull of the sun (towards the Sun's center) but, as it seems, away from it?
I probably should have payed more attention to science in high school, but I would really appreciate a kind and an easy-to-grasp answer ;-).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Astronomy news on Phys.org
Yes, but still I don't quite understand why the force of the Moon's gravitational pull on the side farthest from the moon is directed, as it seems, away from the moon, and not towards the moon and towards the Earth's center. It seems to me that on the side farthest from the Moon the force of the Moon's gravity and the force of the Earth's gravity have the same direction, so why they are subtracted rather than added?
I realize that there must be some profound misconception in what I wrote above, and I would be really glad to know what the misconception is exactly about.
 
It's not that rock F is pulled away from the Sun, it's that Earth is pulled away from rock F.

Think of it this way:

Three rocks, a, B and c are resting together, 93 million miles from the sun:

(SUN) . . . . . . . . . . aBc

a is 1kg
B is 10^23 kg
c is 1kg

a is pulled most strongly toward the Sun;
B is pulled toward the sun but less strongly than a;
finally, c is pulled toward the sun but less strongly than B.

The net effect is that
aBc separate neatly and evenly to become a B c.

See?
 
Hm... Is it really that simple? Well, it seems I get it now, thank you very much :D
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
6K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K