Earth & Moon Gravity Gradient: Investigating Its Impact

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the gravitational effects experienced on the Moon due to the Earth's gravity gradient. Participants explore the implications of distance from the Earth's core, the gravitational pull on the Moon's surface, and how these factors influence weight variations for objects on the Moon. The scope includes theoretical calculations, conceptual clarifications, and some mathematical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents calculations showing how gravity varies on the Moon's surface based on proximity to the Earth, suggesting significant weight differences for objects depending on their location.
  • Another participant questions the initial calculations, emphasizing the need to consider centrifugal forces and the balance of forces acting on objects on the Moon.
  • Some participants discuss the role of gravitational forces from the Earth, Moon, and Sun, and how these contribute to the overall experience of weightlessness or weight variation on the Moon's surface.
  • A later reply introduces Kepler's laws to explain how distance affects orbital periods, suggesting that objects closer to the Earth may experience different gravitational influences.
  • One participant provides a more complex mathematical model to describe how the normal force varies based on latitude and longitude on the Moon's surface, incorporating various gravitational influences.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of centrifugal forces and the nature of gravitational interactions on the Moon. There is no consensus on the correct interpretation of the gravitational effects, and multiple competing models and calculations are presented.

Contextual Notes

Some calculations rely on assumptions such as uniform mass distribution and circular orbits, which may not fully capture the complexities of gravitational interactions. The discussion also highlights the need for clarity regarding the contributions of various forces acting on objects on the Moon.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying gravitational physics, orbital mechanics, or anyone curious about the effects of gravity in different celestial contexts.

  • #31
If you look at the red dots and continue them through the whole circle, you will see they are doing circular motion about the center of the earth. Yes, the moon has a rotation whose period is the same as its period of revolution, but that rotation simplifies this problem, by making the motion of the object simply as a circle around the earth.

The object is lighter than the gravity by the moon, because the period of its orbit is determined by the time ## T ## that the center of the moon orbits. ## F_{gravity \, earth}=GMm/(r-\Delta r)^2## , while centripetal force needed is ## F_c=[(2 \pi (r- \Delta r)/T]^2/(r- \Delta r) ##, with center of moon in orbit obeys ## GMm/r^2=(2 \pi r/T)^2/r ##. The difference between the Earth's gravity and the centripetal force needed is how much lighter the scale reads from the gravity of the moon pulling on the object.
 
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  • #32
If you solve for ## F_c ## eliminating ## T ##, you get ## F_c=GMm(r-\Delta r)/r^3 ##. This gives
## F_g-F_c=GMm \frac{r^3-(r-\Delta r)^3}{r^3 (r-\Delta r)^2} ##.
With a little algebra you get ## F_g-F_c \approx 3GMm \Delta r/r^3=3 (GMm/r_e^2) r_e^2 \Delta r /r^3 ##.
In more detail, the above expression gives ## F_g-F_c=(GMm/r^2) (3(\frac{\Delta r}{r})+3 (\frac{\Delta r}{r})^2+...) ##
## GMm/r_e^2 ## is the weight of the object on earth.

You can do a similar thing when the object is on the far side of the moon. Then the reduction in weight is ## F_c-F_g ##. To first order this gives an identical result to the above. The second order result for the difference ## |F_{c1}-F_{g1}|-|F_{c2}-F_{g2}| =6GMm (\Delta r)^2 /r^4 ##. ( Note this difference is zero in first order). This result was first obtained by @PeroK post 22. (The second order term for the far side expression has the opposite sign, thereby the factor of 6).
 
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  • #33
[QUOTE = "PeroK, post: 6435672, member: 493650"]

$$ N_f = F_M + F_ {cMc} $$
And the effective gravity on the Moon depends on which side you are standing on?
[/QUOTE]
You're right, maybe I mix ideas, actually on the opposite side in the same frame of reference I must have written something like

-N_f = -F_M + F_ {cMc}
That is, when we include the Earth
N_c = F_M-F_ {Ec} F_ {cEc} -F_ {cMc}-N_f = -F_M - F_ {Ef} + F_ {cEf} + F_ {cMc}

Which are the same equations, but the sign only indicates the vector sense in that frame of reference.
Actually, the difference between the measured values between one side and the other is due to the difference between

$$ F_ {Ec} - F_ {cEc} \neq F_ {Ef} - F_ {cEf} $$
Edit I still haven't read the additional messages I've been replying to
 
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  • #34
It may be worth mentioning for the arithmetic of the results of post 32, etc., it is kind of simple, if you use for the radius of the Earth ## r_e=4000 ## miles, the Earth to moon distance ##r=240,000 ## miles, and the radius of the moon ## \Delta r=1000 ## miles. Then ## r_e/r=1/60 ##, and ## \Delta r/r=1/240 ##.
 
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