Group Table: Understanding the Identity Element and Avoiding Repeated Values

  • Thread starter Thread starter joelkato1605
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Group Table
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the identity element in the context of a group table, specifically addressing the implications of certain operations and the requirement for unique values in rows and columns.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore whether the element 's' can be considered the identity element based on the operation s*u=u. There are questions about how to fill in the group table while adhering to the rules of group theory, such as ensuring no repeated values in rows or columns. Some participants suggest using specific operations to derive further elements of the table.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively discussing the identity element and its implications for filling in the group table. Some guidance has been provided regarding the necessity of defining all operations and ensuring that each element appears exactly once in each row and column. Multiple interpretations of how to approach filling the table are being explored.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of a rule that all elements must occur in each row and column, which is a fundamental aspect of group tables. The discussion also hints at the possibility of multiple solutions, indicating that the problem may have various valid configurations.

joelkato1605
Messages
19
Reaction score
2
Homework Statement
Group table
Relevant Equations
n/a
*stuv
ss?v?uv?
ttv
uu?
vv?

Since s*u=u does that mean s is the identity element? Then I know there can't be repeated values in a row or column so I need to us that to somehow fill in the rest of the blank spaces?
 

Attachments

  • Capture.PNG
    Capture.PNG
    8.7 KB · Views: 204
Physics news on Phys.org
joelkato1605 said:
Homework Statement:: Group table
Relevant Equations:: n/a

*stuv
ss?v?uv?
ttv
uu?
vv?

Since s*u=u does that mean s is the identity element?
Yes, but then s*t=s*v=v cannot be!
Then I know there can't be repeated values in a row or column ...
Right.
... so I need to us that to somehow fill in the rest of the blank spaces?
No. You have to fill them with an element, since every multiplication has to be defined, and blank is no group element.

Hint: There are two possible solutions.
 
Right, do I need to use something like U*T=S*U*T in some way?
 
You have to decide, which element is the identity. Seems, that ##s## has this role. So ##s\cdot a= a## for any other group element. This gives you the first row and first column.

Before you check associativity, look whether you can fill up the remaining ##9## places according to the rule: all ##4## elements must occur in each row and each column! Do you know why there is such a rule?
 
So the table should look like this
stuv
sstuv
ttvsu
uusvt
vvuts
 
Thanks for the help.
 
joelkato1605 said:
So the table should look like this
stuv
sstuv
ttvsu
uusvt
vvuts
What do you get if you put all ##s## on the main diagonal?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K