Passing Derivative Under the Integral: Conditions and Applications

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions required to pass a derivative under the integral sign in the context of a function satisfying the diffusion equation. The original poster seeks clarification on the justification for this operation and the application of Green's identity at the boundary, particularly as the radius approaches infinity.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to justify passing the derivative under the integral by referencing the behavior of the function at infinity and its implications for the integral's limit. They question the validity of using Green's theorem with an infinitely growing boundary.
  • Some participants discuss the conditions under which the limit of the derivative commutes with integration and highlight potential pitfalls in assuming that a vanishing integrand at infinity guarantees a zero limit for the integral.
  • Further inquiries are made regarding the necessity of compact support for the function in question.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights into the conditions for passing derivatives under the integral and the implications of using Green's theorem. There is recognition of the need for a more rigorous argument regarding the behavior of the integral over an expanding domain, but no consensus has been reached on the necessity of compact support.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the original poster's assumptions about the function's behavior at infinity may not be sufficient to justify their conclusions. The discussion highlights the importance of rigor in justifying mathematical operations involving limits and integrals.

Brian T
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Homework Statement


My question involves whether or not we can pass the derivative under the integral in the following question, and what conditions need to be met. My second is question is how to evaluate using Green's identity at the "boundary". See below

A function u satisfies the diffusion equation in \mathcal{R}^n \times (0,\infty) with some initial value.
$$u_t = \Delta u, u(x,0)=v(x) $$
The question is to show that the integral of u(x,t) over the whole domain is constant w.r.t time (physically, this means the total amount of whatever is diffusing remains constant over all space, e.g. mass conservation). We are also given that the value of the solution u(x,t) \rightarrow 0 \ as \ |x| \rightarrow \infty, i.e. that it asymptotically approches 0.
To show that it is constant w.r.t time, we show that
$$\frac{d}{dt} \int_{\mathcal{R}^n}u(x,t)d^nx = 0$$
My question is, if we know that the function vanishes at infinity, can we pass the differentiating under the integral. What are the conditions to be able to do this?
2. Relevant eq
3. The Attempt at a Solution

Assuming that we can pass the derivative under the integral,
$$\frac{d}{dt} \int_{\mathcal{R}^n}u(x,t)d^nx = \int_{\mathcal{R}^n} u_t(x,t)d^nx = \int_{\mathcal{R}^n} \Delta u(x,t)d^nx$$
Using Green's identity here, where we take the "boundary" to be a sphere S^{n-1}_R and let the radius R go to infinity.
$$ = lim_{R \rightarrow \infty} \int_{S^{n-1}_R} \frac{\partial u}{\partial n} d^{n-1}s$$
and since the function vanishes asymptotically, it's derivative will be 0 at this "boundary" and so the whole term will be 0,
$$\therefore \frac{d}{dt} \int_{\mathcal{R}^n}u(x,t)d^nx = 0$$

The questions I have with my solution is
(1) in what conditions are we allowed to pass the derivative under the integral as I did in my solution. Was this justified? (Although the vanishing at infinity is weaker than the condition for compact support, I treated them essentially as the same. I'd like more details on this)
(2) Was it justified to use Green's theorem on a "boundary" whose size we let go to infinity?
If anyone has a more rigorous approach at this problem, please clue me in :)
Regards
 
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Brian T said:
The questions I have with my solution is
(1) in what conditions are we allowed to pass the derivative under the integral as I did in my solution. Was this justified?
The limit in the definition of the derivative must commute with the integration. As long as it does you will be fine.
Brian T said:
Was it justified to use Green's theorem on a "boundary" whose size we let go to infinity?
Yes, but you are missing that this is not sufficient. It is generally possible for an integral over a growing domain to have a non zero limit even if the integrand goes to zero.
 
Orodruin said:
The limit in the definition of the derivative must commute with the integration. As long as it does you will be fine.

Yes, but you are missing that this is not sufficient. It is generally possible for an integral over a growing domain to have a non zero limit even if the integrand goes to zero.

Thanks for the insight. So for your second comment, does this imply that we have to assume that the function has compact support?
 
Brian T said:
Thanks for the insight. So for your second comment, does this imply that we have to assume that the function has compact support?
No. Just that you need to argue better. Due to the behaviour of the Green function, it will not have compact support.
 

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