Half-life of the "novichok" nerve agent outside of a body?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the half-life of the "novichok" nerve agent both inside and outside biological systems, particularly in light of recent incidents of poisoning in Great Britain. Participants explore the stability, decomposition, and persistence of the agent in various environments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the half-life of "novichok" in biological systems and suggests it should decompose rapidly due to its nature as a nerve agent.
  • Another participant notes mixed opinions among the inventors regarding the stability of "novichok," referencing external sources for information.
  • A participant shares an interview with a toxicologist that does not clarify how "novichok" is metabolized, mentioning that it is stable with a slow evaporation rate and can remain dangerous for years.
  • Concerns are raised about the long-term danger of "novichok," with one participant expressing fear over its potential applications due to its persistence.
  • Discussion includes references to the production quantities of various substances related to "novichok," with one participant calculating the implications of these amounts in relation to lethal doses.
  • A later reply humorously suggests an experimental amount that far exceeds lethal doses, indicating the extreme potency of the agent.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the stability and half-life of "novichok," with no consensus reached on its behavior in biological systems or its implications for safety and military use.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various sources, including interviews and Wikipedia, but acknowledge the limitations in available data regarding the half-life and metabolism of "novichok." There is uncertainty about the exact mechanisms of breakdown and the duration of danger posed by the agent.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying toxicology, chemical warfare, or public health, particularly in relation to nerve agents and their effects.

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What is the half-life of "novichok" in, and outside, a biological system? There seems to be an "epidemic" of "novichok" poisoning in Great Britain lately, and given that it's a nerve agent, my understanding is that it should be susceptible to fairly rapid decomposition/breakdown.
 
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Here's an interview with a toxicologist: https://www.npr.org/2018/07/06/626664129/the-deadly-novichok-nerve-agent-what-is-it?t=1531106306623 but they don't mention how it is removed, kidneys or liver.

Wikipedia mentions evaporation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent
According to Vladimir Uglyov, who worked on the development of Novichok , it is very stable with a slow evaporation rate and can remain dangerous for years once deployed.

IMO it's better explained on the German Wikipedia page, at least as the body chemistry is concerned. They have a hint that the liver is affected, which makes me assume that it takes longer than if it were dissipated by the kidneys. Due to only a few cases, it's probably difficult to tell for how long it remains in a body.
 
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"dangerous for years" scares the hell out of me.

Edit: has to have been for some very special use/application; too long-lived for any military purpose.
 
Bystander said:
"dangerous for years" scares the hell out of me.
Add the amount they had produced!

Also from Wikipedia:

Mirsajanow counts the substances A-230, A-232 and A-234 to the basic substances of the Novichok series and also the Russian variant of the VX (substance 33, VR). Of these, Substance 33 and A-230 were approved as chemical weapons, with Substance 33 producing 15,000 tonnes said Mirsajanow and A-230 only producing experimental quantities (tens of tonnes).

Mirsajanow zählt[ die Substanzen A-230, A-232 und A-234 zu den grundlegenden Substanzen der Nowitschok-Reihe sowie außerdem die russische Variante des VX (Substanz 33, VR). Davon erhielten Substanz 33 und A-230 die Zulassung als chemische Waffen, wobei von Substanz 33 nach Mirsajanow 15.000 Tonnen produziert wurden, von A-230 nur experimentelle Mengen (einige zehn Tonnen).

Now what is tens of tons divided by ##100\,\mu g\,## (Hay)?
 
A small experimental amount of 100 billion times the lethal dose.
 

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