Harmful Levels of Magnetic field exposer?

[W3pcq]

1. Are rare Earth magnets harmful to handle and if so what strengths and sizes are safer?

2. Is the magnetic field produced by an electric car strong enough to have harmful effects on a person s health.

 

[Poop-Loops]

No and no.

MRI's are very safe, and they produce some huge magnetic fields. Anything you can dig up in your backyard pales in comparison.

But I wouldn't swallow them anyway if I were you.

 

[chroot]

There are no known health consequences of strong magnetic fields. Your rare Earth magnets are much more dangerous due to their potential to mechanically crush or otherwise injure your body when they snap together, or impact something and break into shrapnel.

- Warren

 

[Chi Meson]

2. Is the magnetic field produced by an electric car strong enough to have harmful effects on a person s health.

Only if said magnetic field contributes to the electric car running over your leg.

 

[binzing]

Magnets are COOL! Lol, even at incredibly high strengths they can still be safe, and yet, if strong enough, they can affect move anything, even people.

 

[wildman]

During WWII they used very strong magnetic fields to degauss metal ships to protect against magnetic torpedos. They men who worked in these intense fields for years had no higher instance of disease than the men who did not during peace time. In other words, magnetic fields are apparently harmless.

 

[W3pcq]

I found this article and it is what caused my concern. Are you sure magnetic fields cause no harm?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/02/040219075606.htm

 

[binzing]

That seemed to be talking about electromagnets only, not permanent or reare Earth magnets.

 

[binzing]

More specifically, AC electromagnets.

 

[W3pcq]

Yeah, that is why I asked about rare Earth magnets. I though that it was common knowledge that electromagnets could be harmful depending on strength. For example people who live under power lines. This article seams to suggest that even low level electromagnetic fields can cause harm over time which is why I asked about electric or hybrid cars. Is it safe drive in one for extended periods of time?

 

[binzing]

We have a hybrid Civic. No problems yet, and my mom's newly replaced knee doesn't jerk forwards when the electric kicks on.

 

[W3pcq]

The article claims that even the exposure we get in everyday life from electric blankets, electric razors, blow dryers could accumulate and cause damage to DNA in our brain cells. A hybrid car has got to create an EMF more powerful than an electric razor, and if you like to go on road trips, the exposure times could be hundreds to thousands of times longer.

However, maybe the amount of loss of brain cells is small enough to only make you slightly stupid or slightly senile. The rats had significant loss. I am not a biologist, so I can't say what is significant or not, but if there is any noticeably affect on my behavior, intelligence, memory, motor skills, social skills, or personality I would like to know.

 

[binzing]

But, hybrid cars don't use the electric very much on extended drives. They mainly use them when leaving stops, so are better for in city, stop and go driving.

 

[mgb_phys]

MRI's are very safe, and they produce some huge magnetic fields.

Quite a few people are killed every year by MRIs - mostly by some idiot leaving a steel oxygen cylinder in the room when they turn the field on !

I had a friend doing a PhD on NMR - he reckoned he got a headache and weird flashing lights if he had his head under the magnet when adjusting a sample - but these were much higher field than an MRI scan, and weird flashing lights were part of his personality!

 

[binzing]

I got to think some more. The electric motor in hybrids is prolly DC anyways, even if its multiple phase its not AC, which is what the article repeatedly implied.

 

[Poop-Loops]

Quite a few people are killed every year by MRIs - mostly by some idiot leaving a steel oxygen cylinder in the room when they turn the field on !

That has to HURT!

I had a friend doing a PhD on NMR - he reckoned he got a headache and weird flashing lights if he had his head under the magnet when adjusting a sample - but these were much higher field than an MRI scan, and weird flashing lights were part of his personality!

I wonder if that was due to the magnetic field or any audio vibration from the parts? I know I can tell when a TV is on, even if it's in another room. Nothing to do with magnets, just hearing the very high-pitched sound it gives off. I can see that giving me a headache if it was too loud, or too high, or just affecting some people differently.

 

[NateTG]

The floating frogs are basically unharmed.

 

[Delzac]

Yeah, that is why I asked about rare Earth magnets. I though that it was common knowledge that electromagnets could be harmful depending on strength. For example people who live under power lines. This article seams to suggest that even low level electromagnetic fields can cause harm over time which is why I asked about electric or hybrid cars. Is it safe drive in one for extended periods of time?

When you say electromagnetic field do you mean light radio waves and UV light?

 

[W3pcq]

What is the difference between a DC electro-magnetic field and an AC electro-magnetic field?

The article I posted shows evidence that the fundamental cause of harm is the iron content in certain cells and their interaction with the magnetic field.
How does iron interact with a DC magnetic field vs an AC magnetic field?

 

[K.J.Healey]

Id assume you can just generalize and say that perhaps in the presence of a DC magnetic field, anything with a magnetic moment in your body would attempt to align itself to the field. In an AC if its constantly changing sign, it seems logical to assume it could cause much more damage, perhaps just due to the "vibrations" caused, and the constant change. Maybe it affects bonding in cells or division.

Or am I completely mistaken ?

 

[dst]

The article claims that even the exposure we get in everyday life from electric blankets, electric razors, blow dryers could accumulate and cause damage to DNA in our brain cells. A hybrid car has got to create an EMF more powerful than an electric razor, and if you like to go on road trips, the exposure times could be hundreds to thousands of times longer.

However, maybe the amount of loss of brain cells is small enough to only make you slightly stupid or slightly senile. The rats had significant loss. I am not a biologist, so I can't say what is significant or not, but if there is any noticeably affect on my behavior, intelligence, memory, motor skills, social skills, or personality I would like to know.

A hybrid car would generally be Faraday-caged off, so nothing from that should affect the driver. At least if the engineer wants to keep his job.

 

[binzing]

Yeah, that too, if the company is putting out all this effort, they're going to try to make it as safe as possible in all aspects.

 

[ZapperZ]

Yeah, that is why I asked about rare Earth magnets. I though that it was common knowledge that electromagnets could be harmful depending on strength. For example people who live under power lines. This article seams to suggest that even low level electromagnetic fields can cause harm over time which is why I asked about electric or hybrid cars. Is it safe drive in one for extended periods of time?

Please be VERY careful here. You are perpetuating a lot of misinformation.

I strongly suggest you visit the http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/magnetic-fields" and read their comprehensive study on this. As of today, there have been NO CONCRETE EVIDENCE of the link between electromagnetic wave from appliances/power lines and cancer. So no, it is NOT "common knowledge" other than that perpetuated by misinformation.

Zz.

 

[W3pcq]

I don't mean to misinform people, but I just wanted to know.

If you read the article I posted then you might wonder. The hypothesis is that iron is more abundant in brain cells and so brain cells are affected more. The result is thought to be an increase in free ions and free radicals in brain cells.

It seems that would make sense as to why many people claim that living under strong power lines can lead to blood cancer. Blood is also high in iron content.

I don't see the harm in questioning this. I know it is a touchy subject since there are many economic factors at play in announcing fully conclusive evidence that EMF's can be harmful.

 

[mgb_phys]

But blood cancer doesn't occur in blood, red blood cells do not have any DNA, cannot divide and do not get cancer. Leukemia occurs in bone marrow creating blood cells, bone marrow does not have lots of iron.

 

[ZapperZ]

I don't mean to misinform people, but I just wanted to know.

If you read the article I posted then you might wonder. The hypothesis is that iron is more abundant in brain cells and so brain cells are affected more. The result is thought to be an increase in free ions and free radicals in brain cells.

It seems that would make sense as to why many people claim that living under strong power lines can lead to blood cancer. Blood is also high in iron content.

I don't see the harm in questioning this. I know it is a touchy subject since there are many economic factors at play in announcing fully conclusive evidence that EMF's can be harmful.

There is a difference between questioning it, and making a blatant statement of it. You did the latter when you claim that it has a common knowledge that it causes harm. This wasn't something you were asking a "question" on. It was a statement which you already stated as a "fact". This is FALSE.

The NIH study is the most comprehensive so far. It includes a survey of ALL the available studies that have been produced up to that point. I don't know of any other that comes close to that. If you don't buy that, but would rather buy some other report, then you need to start questioning yourself on why you put more validity on one versus the other.

Zz.

 

[S_G_B]

There is a difference between questioning it, and making a blatant statement of it. You did the latter when you claim that it has a common knowledge that it causes harm. This wasn't something you were asking a "question" on. It was a statement which you already stated as a "fact". This is FALSE.

The NIH study is the most comprehensive so far. It includes a survey of ALL the available studies that have been produced up to that point. I don't know of any other that comes close to that. If you don't buy that, but would rather buy some other report, then you need to start questioning yourself on why you put more validity on one versus the other.

Zz.

I landed on this old thread while searching for information on the possible health risks from magnetic fields in electric cars and bikes. It just occurred to me - this moment - that a motor is a motor, whether it's being powered by an ICU or a DC battery pack (no magnetic field). So EVs would seem to expose riders to no more or less of a magnetic field risk than gas-engine powered cars.

I do have a nit to pick about your characterization of the NIH review. Among their conclusions:

"Overall, there is limited evidence that magnetic fields cause childhood leukemia, and there is inadequate evidence that these magnetic fields cause other cancers in children."

"Limited evidence" in conservative science-speak is concrete enough cause for precautionary concern by actual people.

The review also describes some of the evidence for carcinogenic effects in adults in terms consistent with mixed/weak/inconclusive evidence, i.e., the jury is still out.

Finally, concerns about magnetic fields, as the original poster repeatedly tried to emphasize, aren't limited to cancer. Another important concern is adverse effects on brain and behaviour, and there is substantial evidence in the peer-reviewed research literature that chronic exposure from such things as cell phones and high-frequency power lines may, for example, be a risk factor for brain tumours, depression and even suicide.

 

[collinsmark]

1. Are rare Earth magnets harmful to handle and if so what strengths and sizes are safer?

Just make sure you don't eat the magnets. But if you absolutely must eat a magnet, make sure you eat only one, whole, unchewed, unbroken magnet (and avoid eating other magnets at least until the first passes). There can be dire heath consequences if you have multiple magnets in your GI tract.

 

[Gokul43201]

I had a friend doing a PhD on NMR - he reckoned he got a headache and weird flashing lights if he had his head under the magnet when adjusting a sample - but these were much higher field than an MRI scan, and weird flashing lights were part of his personality!

I know this is old, but since were back on this topic ... I too experienced mild headaches in grad school when we ramped our 16T magnet up past 12T or so. This could very well have been psychosomatic, or just coincidence. If it wasn't me that was doing the measurement, I was usually in the office attached to our lab, and even at a distance of a couple dozen feet, the field would make the display on your computer get a little wonky, so you almost always knew when there was a strong field on.

Just make sure you don't eat the magnets. But if you absolutely must eat a magnet, make sure you eat only one, whole, unchewed, unbroken magnet (and avoid eating other magnets at least until the first passes). There can be dire heath consequences if you have multiple magnets in your GI tract.

If you absolutely must eat a magnet, check yourself into a hospital first. Or a mental health center.

 

[SpiffyKavu]

There would likely be very harmful effects if a human got particularly close to a neutron star, especially a magnetar. With fields of their strength (~10¹⁴G at the surface of the neutron star), funny things start happening to the individual molecules and atoms. However, a person is probably going to die from exposure to high energy radiation (X-Rays, etc.) and high energy particles long before the magnetic field has an impact on them. Also, there is a very low chance of encountering a neutron star on or anywhere near Earth.

 

[ThomasEdison]

I am an electrician and I have never heard of any other electrician, even people in the trade for 40 years continously, having any health issue related to EMR.

I've worked at distribution centers for large worksites ( like Intel or large water treatment facilities (places with a huge power demand)) where the hum from large transformers nearby was so loud everyone had to shout to hear each other. Corridors where there are thousands of large x-formers humming away closely packed together and your work is about 1-2 feet away from one of these live monsters or you need to work in a confined space with one and your back is touching the outer case of one of these beasts and you are vibrating along with it and feel the heat of all that power on your back. I have never had any concern over stray emf harming my cells. I would expect that the most damage a body can receive in that regard comes from sunbathing. I do get concerned about overexposure to sunlight on days I have to work outside or exposure to particulates such as drywall dust or smoke from cutting steel but never EMR from an artificial electrical source.

The only problematic factor for me has been from the loud humming sound of vibrating electrical gear which is sometimes loud enough to nullify earplugs. This is often from improper install someone else did. On even a perfect install the windings can unnintentionally act similar to solenoids and vibrate and are loud or usually the case is too loose. In new x-formers there is often a pad inside at the bottom with bolts which must be loosened to dampen noise and many installers are under time deadlines and simply ignore that minor detail. The humming can get really annoying.

 

[Andy]

I heard that electro magnetic fields where bad for your sperm.

 

[S_G_B]

I am an electrician and I have never heard of any other electrician, even people in the trade for 40 years continuously, having any health issue related to EMR.

How would you identify a health issue related to EMR? To put it another way, if chronic exposure does indeed increase a person's risk for developing, say, certain cancers/tumours, neuropsychiatric disorders and less serious things like insomnia and fatigue, how would you be able to tell if any of your fellow electricians who may be chronically overexposed to ELF (extremely low frequency) magnetic fields (these are the magnetic fields that are of concern; it's not just the power of the field but the extremely low frequency, which overlaps with the frequency of some of our bodies' electrophysiological processes) who have developed any of these conditions (surely some of them have) might owe it, in part, statistically, to their exposure to ELF magnetic fields?

The research so far only suggests that chronic overexposure to ELF magnetic fields may be a risk factor - a permissive cause - for a variety of health issues, like saturated fat and heart disease. It's not a 1:1 correspondence.

FWIW, here's what WHO says about the subject:
"Many studies published during the last decade on occupational exposure to ELF fields have exhibited a number of inconsistencies. They suggest there may be a small elevation in the risk of leukaemia among electrical workers. However, confounding factors, such as possible exposures to chemicals in the work environment, have not been adequately taken into account in many of them. Assessment of ELF field exposure has not correlated well with the cancer risk among exposed subjects. Therefore, a cause-and-effect link between ELF field exposure and cancer has not been confirmed." (http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs205/en/)