Has Jupiter Been Bombarded by Another Object?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the recent evidence suggesting that Jupiter has been impacted by another object, following a similar event with comet Shoemaker-Levy 9. Participants explore the implications of such impacts, the visibility of Jupiter through telescopes, and the protective role of Jupiter in relation to Earth.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants mention that a new dark "scar" on Jupiter indicates an impact, with evidence gathered by NASA's Infrared Telescope Facility.
  • One participant reflects on their own observation of Jupiter, noting the difficulty in noticing changes without prior knowledge of the impact.
  • There is speculation about the size of the impacting object, with references to Michio Kaku's claim that it was no more than a mile across but created a fireball the size of Earth.
  • Some participants discuss the potential consequences of a similar impact on Earth, suggesting that living in outer space might be a necessary precaution.
  • Questions arise regarding the necessary magnification to observe Jupiter's features, with varying opinions on what constitutes "clear" visibility.
  • One participant argues that Jupiter's gravity may lead to higher energy collisions compared to Earth, while another questions the validity of this comparison.
  • Concerns are raised about the rarity of significant impacts in Earth's vicinity and the potential for Jupiter to both intercept and divert objects.
  • Some participants speculate on the implications of an impact on Earth, suggesting that the size of the fireball would depend on the atmosphere's size.
  • There is a discussion about the protective role of Jupiter and other gas giants, with some participants questioning how effective this protection is when the planets are on opposite sides of the Sun.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the implications of the impact on Jupiter, the visibility of the planet, and the protective role of gas giants. No consensus is reached on these topics, and multiple competing perspectives remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions of visibility and the conditions under which impacts occur. There are also unresolved questions about the gravitational effects on object trajectories and the implications of potential impacts on Earth.

Astronuc
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Scientists have found evidence that another object has bombarded Jupiter, exactly 15 years after the first impacts by the comet Shoemaker-Levy 9.

Following up on a tip by an amateur astronomer, Anthony Wesley of Australia, that a new dark "scar" had suddenly appeared on Jupiter, this morning between 3 and 9 a.m. PDT (6 a.m. and noon EDT) scientists at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., using NASA's Infrared Telescope Facility at the summit of Mauna Kea, Hawaii, gathered evidence indicating an impact.
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/jup-20090720.html
 
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I was looking at Jupiter early Sunday morning. Supposedly after the guy in Australia. I can't say I really noticed anything, but wasn't looking for it. I was observing through a 9.25 Celestron with a 14 MM meade lens. It sure looked nice, but maybe I should've been paying better attention - I could be famous today!

Oh well!

Sterling
 
I should've been paying better attention - I could be famous today!

LOL, how true, yes, I guess that applies to a lot of us.

The sky transparency here has been crappy lately. Perhaps in the next few days things will improve. But, It will probably have faded away by then.
 
Well, how big was that object having bombarded the Jupiter? MICHIO KAKU in his http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052970203517304574306131239654294.html" article says that it was no more than a mile across, but created a fireball roughly the size of the planet Earth. What could happen if such an object would bombard the Earth? What should we do for to get ready to meet such a bad chance? I think the answer is to leave the Earth and live in outer space.
 
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Ruslan_Sharipov said:
Well, how big was that object having bombarded the Jupiter? MICHIO KAKU in his http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052970203517304574306131239654294.html" article says that it was no more than a mile across, but created a fireball roughly the size of the planet Earth. What could happen if such an object would bombard the Earth? What should we do for to get ready to meet such a bad chance? I think the answer is to leave the Earth and live in outer space.

Well I'm pretty sure that a contributing factor to why Earth is so capable of supporting life is the very fact that things like this happen on Jupiter and all the other massive planets on the outer solar system. Even our moon shields us effectively. Not saying that an impact would never occur only that it is far less likely than an impact on Jupiter. This is my speculation of course.

Back to the topic of Jupiter:

How powerful of magnification would you need to use to be able to see Jupiter clearly?
 
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Sorry! said:
How powerful of magnification would you need to use to be able to see Jupiter clearly?
That is an infinitely vague question. What does "clearly" mean? I think I can see Jupiter "clearly" with my naked eye!
 
russ_watters said:
That is an infinitely vague question. What does "clearly" mean? I think I can see Jupiter "clearly" with my naked eye!

Sorry say see the belts/bands around Jupiter or the red spot on it. Is this even possible or only through taking pictures can you see that??
 
You can see the bands using the cheapest of the cheap amateur telescope and your eyes. 100x magnification should do it. Right now, some of the bands show a very high contrast.
 
Sorry! said:
Not saying that an impact would never occur only that it is far less likely than an impact on Jupiter.

Think that it is sufficient if it happens once for to cancel the result of millions of years of the life evolution on the Earth. This should impress you. Therefore arranging a stable self-supporting and self-sufficient human life in the open space far of the Earth is more important than Lunar bases and missions to Mars.
 
  • #10
I suspect also that due to Jupiter's gravity, the speed and therefore energy of the collision would be much higher on Jupiter than Earth.
 
  • #11
russ_watters said:
I suspect also that due to Jupiter's gravity, the speed and therefore energy of the collision would be much higher on Jupiter than Earth.

Well russ don't the comets travel based upon the gravity of the sun? Of course the comet hit Jupiter because it got trapped in its gravitational field but if it continues its path towards the sun wouldn't it gain much MORE speed because it is using up more of its G.P.E. from the which I assume would be greater because of the vast distance? I might be wrong.

Even so it is known that an asteroid or comet impact on Earth could possibly end life as we know it.

And @ Ruslan. I was merely pointing out that your comparisson isn't valid. Jupiter 'serves' a purpose of sucking up these comets and asteroids etc. An impact of this magnitude would be highly improbable on Earth whereas it is quite likely to happen again within my lifetime many times on Jupiter.
I think humans should be more worried about how biologist say we are in the midst of a Extinction Event (caused by humans)... why do I say this?

Torino Scale my good friend. I believe one asteroid actually makes level 2 on the torino scale. Possible impact with Earth: 2880.
http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/risk/

Sure we don't have a complete catalog of all objects in space. So let's stick to the numbers then I guess... asteroids of 5 km impact Earth once every 10 million years... 10 km (like the one that killed caused the extinction event of the dinos) well... that's the only one.
 
  • #12
Anything a mile across traveling 40k mph would be very bad for most life on earth. And a mile across is not easy to see at the distance we would need to see it to take effective action. Fortunately, collisions of such magnitude are rare in our neighborhood. I am not sold on Jupiter protecting us all that much. I suspect it diverts as many objects our way as it intercepts.
 
  • #13
The telescope and amateur Anthony Wesley. Nice scope!
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/07/26/fashion/26Jupiter.2.ready.html

Story
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/fashion/26Jupiter.html

I once had the opportunity of using a 14-inch Celestron to view details of Saturn as part of an Astronomy course in university. We later took it and it's twin to the Davis Mountains in W. Texas as part of a field trip. We did a lot of night viewing of the Milky Way.


Hubble's (HST) view - http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod20...rint.jpg?PHPSESSID=66oq0llm91odbg26hp5s8mmf51

More on the story and the telescope.
http://jupiter.samba.org/jupiter-impact.html
 
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  • #14
Ahh, southern hemisphere - that explains it. Jupiter is much too low in the sky to get high quality photos from the northern hemisphere without extreme luck. My best photo this year probably wouldn't have been good enough to see it.
 
  • #15
Ruslan_Sharipov said:
What could happen if such an object would bombard the Earth?
If Earth's atmosphere was as big as Jupiters, I bet the fireball would grow to the same size.
 
  • #16
Sorry! said:
Well I'm pretty sure that a contributing factor to why Earth is so capable of supporting life is the very fact that things like this happen on Jupiter and all the other massive planets on the outer solar system. Even our moon shields us effectively. Not saying that an impact would never occur only that it is far less likely than an impact on Jupiter. This is my speculation of course.

Back to the topic of Jupiter:

How powerful of magnification would you need to use to be able to see Jupiter clearly?

This is interesting, but how would this explain us being protected when Jupiter and Earth are on opposing sides during their respective orbits around the Sun? The same question goes with Saturn, etc.
 
  • #17
Theelectricchild said:
This is interesting, but how would this explain us being protected when Jupiter and Earth are on opposing sides during their respective orbits around the Sun? The same question goes with Saturn, etc.

Comets and asteroids have orbital periods too; it's not like a comet magically appears in the solar system and instantly plummets to Earth while the planets are frozen in their orbits. The sweeping action of Jupiter is a very, very long term, gradual effect, acting on bodies that are also orbiting the Sun.
 
  • #18
Thank you for clearing up the confusion. The "sweeping" action you mentioned explains it really well.
 
  • #19
Do you mean that we should rely on this "sweeping" action and do no effort to proect the Earth in some way technologically?
 
  • #20
Ruslan_Sharipov said:
Do you mean that we should rely on this "sweeping" action and do no effort to proect the Earth in some way technologically?
No.

Again. Gradual effect. Very long time. Subtle nudging.
 
  • #21
Do you always practice to act at random relying on good fortune?
 
  • #22
Ruslan_Sharipov said:
Do you always practice to act at random relying on good fortune?
Uh...

The fish.