Has the Gravitational Constant Been Measured on the Moon?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on whether the gravitational constant (G) has been measured on the Moon or elsewhere beyond Earth, and the implications of such measurements for understanding the constancy of G throughout space and time. Participants explore theoretical and experimental perspectives related to the gravitational constant, including its potential variations and the impact of such variations on astrophysical phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire whether G has been measured during lunar missions, questioning its constancy throughout space.
  • Others argue that while G appears constant within the solar system, its constancy on larger scales or over time remains uncertain.
  • It is noted that experiments like lunar laser ranging suggest any variation in G over time must be very small, but this does not confirm its constancy universally.
  • Some contributions reference studies that have not detected significant variations in G, citing specific research papers as evidence.
  • There is a suggestion that measuring G over a longer time scale, such as the age of the universe, may yield different insights.
  • Participants discuss the implications of G's constancy for phenomena like Type 1A supernovae, indicating that variations in G would affect energy production in these events.
  • Alternative theories of gravity, such as those based on Mach's Principle, propose that G could vary depending on mass distribution, adding complexity to the discussion.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the conclusions drawn from current evidence, particularly regarding dark energy and its relationship to G.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the constancy of G or the implications of its potential variations. Multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of G and its measurement across different contexts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific experimental conditions and the unresolved nature of how G might vary with time or mass distribution. The discussion also highlights the complexity of interpreting astrophysical data in relation to G.

Blenton
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Has the gravitational constant been measured elsewhere than Earth? Perhaps during the lunar missions?

I ask this because I'm wondering whether the gravitational constant is indeed constant throughout space, or at least something that can verify that.
 
Last edited:
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Blenton said:
Has the gravitational constant been measured elsewhere than Earth? Perhaps during the lunar missions?

I ask this because I'm wondering whether the gravitational constant is indeed constant throughout space, or at least something that can verify that.

As we can observe gravitational effects of bodies within the solar system to very high accuracy, we know that its value is effectively constant within the whole solar system.

We also know from various experiments (such as lunar laser ranging) that if it is varying with time, any variation must be very small (less than with the age of the universe or its inverse).

Such experiments actually typically prove that the product of the gravitational constant and a quantity of mass, Gm, is constant, but it is usually assumed that mass itself is constant.

We cannot directly measure G accurately outside the solar system. However, General Theory of Relativity matches experimental results very accurately within the solar system and seems to provide a reasonable explanation of more distant gravitational effects (although not entirely satisfactory, as it needs to be supplemented by dark matter and dark energy on large scales), and in that theory G is a universal constant.

In alternative theories of gravity based on Mach's Principle, G is a function of the distribution of the masses in the universe, so would be expected to vary near a substantial mass such as the sun. However, in such theories it is possible that the main variation simply manifests as the Newtonian potential, and that the G we calculate is the effect due to all other masses in the universe, which is effectively constant in our vicinity.
 
Extrasolar tests of variations in G over time have been conducted. No evidence of any significant variation has been detected. See, for example

arXiv:0911.0190
Constraining a possible time-variation of the gravitational constant through "gravitochemical heating" of neutron stars

arXiv:1001.4704
Precision timing of PSR J1012+5307 and strong-field GR tests
 
But compared to the what 14 billion years age of the universe is it not probable that we are simply measuring it on too small of a time scale?
 
The science involved in these papers goes very deep into the nature of reality and time. It is not easily absorbed, but, compelling, IMO. I agree, however, these studies do not confirm properties of the universe all the way back to the big event.
 
If G varied, the energy produced in Type 1A supernovae would vary as well. It turns out this is a rather strong function of G, so we know that across space and time G doesn't vary by more than a few percent.
 
Einstein field equations and gravitational constant.


The Einstein field equations in General Relativity are also based upon [tex]G[/tex], which agrees with experiments.

Einstein field equations:
[tex]G_{\mu \nu} + \Lambda g_{\mu \nu}= {8\pi G\over c^4} T_{\mu \nu}[/tex]
[/Color]
Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_field_equations#Mathematical_form"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Vanadium 50 said:
If G varied, the energy produced in Type 1A supernovae would vary as well. It turns out this is a rather strong function of G, so we know that across space and time G doesn't vary by more than a few percent.

Alternatively, if G were stronger in the past, the 1a supernova data can be explained alternatively - without concluding the cosmos is accelerating - the distances appear to be greater because the 1a events occur with a stronger G and less mass - but don't bet to heavily upon it.
 
There is more evidence for dark energy than supernovae. You can't get around this constraint so easily.
 
  • #10
See also:

Confirmation of general relativity on large scales from weak lensing and galaxy velocities
Arxiv 1003.2185
 

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