Have you ever had a spiritual experience?

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Have you ever had a spiritual experience?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 70.0%
  • No

    Votes: 3 30.0%

  • Total voters
    10
  • #26
hypnagogue
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Originally posted by zoobyshoe
"I felt that heaven descended to earth and swallowed me._ I really attained god and was imbued with him._ All of you healthy people don't even suspect_ what happiness is , that happiness that we epileptics experience for a second before an attack."


-Dostoevsky describing
his own seizure aura
So what exactly are you trying to get across with these quotes? How about speaking for yourself instead of letting Dostoevsky do all the talking?
 
  • #27
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Originally posted by hypnagogue
I get similar experiences myself. They are spiritual, yeah, and yes they are experiences. Does this make them spiritual experiences? Semantically yes, but I've reserved the term in this thread for another level of experience. Perhaps I should have called it 'absolute unitive spiritual experience' or somesuch. Because I've had plenty of spiritual feeling states, to varying degrees, but none that holds a candle to the one 'asbolute unitive' experience I've had.
Oh, why didn't you just come out and say so then?

And yet like I said in the link funished above, I died and gave birth to myself -- which, is something I'll probably never forget.

So what's the difference between a man who goes through the first half of his life in abject poverty, and the same man who discovers the key which makes the remainder of his life successful? At what point do you think the initial "contrast" of his success begins to wear off, before it starts to become standard and routine?

Or, let's say you were brought up as a wealthy prince. At what point do you realize that the whole world doesn't surround itself with the same delights of wealth that only you have taken for granted?

http://www.dionysus.org/x0501.html
 
  • #28
hypnagogue
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Originally posted by Iacchus32
Oh, why didn't you just come out and say so then?

And yet like I said in the link funished above, I died and gave birth to myself -- which, is something I'll probably never forget.

So what's the difference between a man who goes through the first half of his life in abject poverty, and the same man who discovers the key which makes the remainder of his life successful? At what point do you think the initial "contrast" of his success begins to wear off, before it starts to become standard and routine?
It's not a matter of something becoming standard or routine. If I ever experienced something like that again it would be just as powerful. Whether I do ever experience anything analogous again itself is doubtful though, given the capricious nature of it all. It is simply not something you can turn on and off... if you could, you would be one of the greatest spiritual visionaries to ever live. Forgive me if I'm skeptical. :smile:
 
  • #29
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Hypnagogue,

I'm saying "Be careful." These
ecstatic states are seizures.

Incidently, Lewis Carol ( origin-
ator of the doormouse in your
signature quote) had them as well.
He experienced a wide varitey
of sensory distortions that found
their way into his books about
Alice. You can't make this stuff
up.

-zoob
 
  • #30
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Originally posted by hypnagogue
It's not a matter of something becoming standard or routine. If I ever experienced something like that again it would be just as powerful. Whether I do ever experience anything analogous again itself is doubtful though, given the capricious nature of it all. It is simply not something you can turn on and off... if you could, you would be one of the greatest spiritual visionaries to ever live. Forgive me if I'm skeptical. :smile:
And yet I have experienced so many different things, at so many different levels, that there's no point in keeping track of it all. Albeit though with the first initial breakthrough comes the feelings of "elation and enrapture," that is until the next time, and the next time, etc., etc. Anymore I don't try to induce this state, I just try to be myself.
 
  • #31
hypnagogue
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Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Hypnagogue,

I'm saying "Be careful." These
ecstatic states are seizures.

Incidently, Lewis Carol ( origin-
ator of the doormouse in your
signature quote) had them as well.
He experienced a wide varitey
of sensory distortions that found
their way into his books about
Alice. You can't make this stuff
up.

-zoob
Your argument is a fallacy. If some A are B, it doesn't follow that all A are B. Seizures are one avenue to mystical experience, but that doesn't mean that all mystical experiences are seizures.
 
  • #32
462
1
Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Hypnagogue,

I'm saying "Be careful." These
ecstatic states are seizures.
...-zoob
If you look at the research, they can be triggered by a seizure, but definitely are not seizures. Even in the most recent Time article, the MRI shows clearly the brain activity is very different from seizure activity.
 
  • #33
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1,280
Hypnogogue,

Although the thread addresses
mystical states in general I'm
limiting my assertion to ecstatic
states.

If you read Zen Mind/Beginner's
Mind the author (a Zen Master -
Suzuki) advises people who go
into Zen looking for some wonder-
ful experience they would be better off trying some kind of drug.

He hints at many mystical results
from meditating but says something
like "after you acquire these pow-
ers they don't seem like anything
special"

I would quote but don't have a
copy or access to one right now.

So be careful, Kirilov.
 
  • #34
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Dionysus was the god of Ecstasy by the way. :smile:
 
  • #35
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1,280
Same guy known as Pan by the
Romans?
 
  • #36
2,225
0
Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Same guy known as Pan by the
Romans?
No, the Romans called him Bacchus, who was then perverted from the god of wine and ecstasy, into the god of the drunken brawl.
 
  • #37
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Ah yes, Bacchus. I studied all
this so long ago its like ancient
history.
 
  • #38
1,029
1
Originally posted by hypnagogue
but none that holds a candle to the one 'asbolute unitive' experience I've had.
Hypnagogue would you share the details of your experience?
 
  • #39
462
1
Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Hypnogogue,

Although the thread addresses
mystical states in general I'm
limiting my assertion to ecstatic
states.
I guess the definition of ecstatic comes into play. I could see that some would have described the experience I had as ecstatic - though I wouldn't.

No matter what practice you attempt, meditation wise, unless you are prone to seizures, meditation will not trigger one.


If you read Zen Mind/Beginner's
Mind the author (a Zen Master -
Suzuki) advises people who go
into Zen looking for some wonder-
ful experience they would be better off trying some kind of drug.
This has nothing to do with ecstatic states, it has to do with flawed expectations. Zen is hard, brutally hard. Damned painful, when it comes down to it. Tack onto that, that you have to start facing all of your own shortcomings - probably more painful than the physical discomfort of the meditation. We can all face our virtues, but facing our flaws is uncomfortable, in the extreme. When sitting in the calm of your own mind there is no place to hide.
 
  • #40
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0
Originally posted by radagast

This has nothing to do with ecstatic states, it has to do with flawed expectations. Zen is hard, brutally hard. Damned painful, when it comes down to it. Tack onto that, that you have to start facing all of your own shortcomings - probably more painful than the physical discomfort of the meditation. We can all face our virtues, but facing our flaws is uncomfortable, in the extreme. When sitting in the calm of your own mind there is no place to hide.
I wondered if this was universal or just me as I was so screwed up when I began. Now I think it is universal as none of us reach adulthood with out mental and emotional along with all the physical scares that life gives us.

This is way IMO that meditation is so benefitial. Every emotion or fit of anger rage or shame that we subressed when young has to be delt with now before we can find peace and harmoney within ourselves.
Getting rid of all this excess negative energy with in us that is eating us up inside is what really makes the difference.

I have read of others who have gone into week long intense Zen meditation sessions crying and sobbing uncontrolably for no concious reason. I know I experiences intense emotional pain at time but knew then that it was because I couldn't or wouldn't express it or endure it at the time of the hurt. Getting rid of all of this is what we mean when we say we feel lighter and freer. It also makes us more healthy mentally and physically for the same reason.
 
  • #41
462
1
Originally posted by Royce
I have read of others who have gone into week long intense Zen meditation sessions crying and sobbing uncontrolably for no concious reason. I know I experiences intense emotional pain at time but knew then that it was because I couldn't or wouldn't express it or endure it at the time of the hurt. Getting rid of all of this is what we mean when we say we feel lighter and freer. It also makes us more healthy mentally and physically for the same reason.
I've seen this happen a number of times. Been close to it happening to me a few times. My first sesshin (intense Zen retreat), I thought I was about to break, but assumed everyone else was fine. Then the girl next to me, one who had attended several sesshins, broke down, sobbing.
 

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