Have you ever had a spiritual experience?

[hypnagogue]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Hypnagogue,

I'm saying "Be careful." These
ecstatic states are seizures.

Incidently, Lewis Carol ( origin-
ator of the doormouse in your
signature quote) had them as well.
He experienced a wide varitey
of sensory distortions that found
their way into his books about
Alice. You can't make this stuff
up.

-zoob

Your argument is a fallacy. If some A are B, it doesn't follow that all A are B. Seizures are one avenue to mystical experience, but that doesn't mean that all mystical experiences are seizures.

 

[radagast]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Hypnagogue,

I'm saying "Be careful." These
ecstatic states are seizures.
...-zoob

If you look at the research, they can be triggered by a seizure, but definitely are not seizures. Even in the most recent Time article, the MRI shows clearly the brain activity is very different from seizure activity.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Hypnogogue,

Although the thread addresses
mystical states in general I'm
limiting my assertion to ecstatic
states.

If you read Zen Mind/Beginner's
Mind the author (a Zen Master -
Suzuki) advises people who go
into Zen looking for some wonder-
ful experience they would be better off trying some kind of drug.

He hints at many mystical results
from meditating but says something
like "after you acquire these pow-
ers they don't seem like anything
special"

I would quote but don't have a
copy or access to one right now.

So be careful, Kirilov.

 

[Iacchus32]

Dionysus was the god of Ecstasy by the way.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Same guy known as Pan by the
Romans?

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Same guy known as Pan by the
Romans?

No, the Romans called him Bacchus, who was then perverted from the god of wine and ecstasy, into the god of the drunken brawl.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Ah yes, Bacchus. I studied all
this so long ago its like ancient
history.

 

[Fliption]

Originally posted by hypnagogue
but none that holds a candle to the one 'asbolute unitive' experience I've had.

Hypnagogue would you share the details of your experience?

 

[radagast]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Hypnogogue,

Although the thread addresses
mystical states in general I'm
limiting my assertion to ecstatic
states.

I guess the definition of ecstatic comes into play. I could see that some would have described the experience I had as ecstatic - though I wouldn't.

No matter what practice you attempt, meditation wise, unless you are prone to seizures, meditation will not trigger one.

If you read Zen Mind/Beginner's
Mind the author (a Zen Master -
Suzuki) advises people who go
into Zen looking for some wonder-
ful experience they would be better off trying some kind of drug.

This has nothing to do with ecstatic states, it has to do with flawed expectations. Zen is hard, brutally hard. Damned painful, when it comes down to it. Tack onto that, that you have to start facing all of your own shortcomings - probably more painful than the physical discomfort of the meditation. We can all face our virtues, but facing our flaws is uncomfortable, in the extreme. When sitting in the calm of your own mind there is no place to hide.

 

[Royce]

Originally posted by radagast

This has nothing to do with ecstatic states, it has to do with flawed expectations. Zen is hard, brutally hard. Damned painful, when it comes down to it. Tack onto that, that you have to start facing all of your own shortcomings - probably more painful than the physical discomfort of the meditation. We can all face our virtues, but facing our flaws is uncomfortable, in the extreme. When sitting in the calm of your own mind there is no place to hide.

I wondered if this was universal or just me as I was so screwed up when I began. Now I think it is universal as none of us reach adulthood without mental and emotional along with all the physical scares that life gives us.

This is way IMO that meditation is so benefitial. Every emotion or fit of anger rage or shame that we subressed when young has to be delt with now before we can find peace and harmoney within ourselves.
Getting rid of all this excess negative energy with in us that is eating us up inside is what really makes the difference.

I have read of others who have gone into week long intense Zen meditation sessions crying and sobbing uncontrolably for no conscious reason. I know I experiences intense emotional pain at time but knew then that it was because I couldn't or wouldn't express it or endure it at the time of the hurt. Getting rid of all of this is what we mean when we say we feel lighter and freer. It also makes us more healthy mentally and physically for the same reason.

 

[radagast]

Originally posted by Royce
I have read of others who have gone into week long intense Zen meditation sessions crying and sobbing uncontrolably for no conscious reason. I know I experiences intense emotional pain at time but knew then that it was because I couldn't or wouldn't express it or endure it at the time of the hurt. Getting rid of all of this is what we mean when we say we feel lighter and freer. It also makes us more healthy mentally and physically for the same reason.

I've seen this happen a number of times. Been close to it happening to me a few times. My first sesshin (intense Zen retreat), I thought I was about to break, but assumed everyone else was fine. Then the girl next to me, one who had attended several sesshins, broke down, sobbing.