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Having children while below the poverty line

  1. Feb 22, 2009 #1
    Should people below the poverty line, who can't feed themselves, have children?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Feb 22, 2009 #2
    No, they shouldn't. But clearly they should be allowed to.
     
  4. Feb 22, 2009 #3

    cristo

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    I don't think they should be encouraged to have children whilst under the poverty line, but we can't stop them, or tell them what they should or shouldn't do!
     
  5. Feb 22, 2009 #4
    Yes, I am using "should", not recommending making it a law.

    I will add my reply later (cur. @ work) but was thinking about family, having a complete family, ways to sustain it, and its dependency on money.
     
  6. Feb 22, 2009 #5
    Well, if they are not able to feed their children properly, they may be divested of the right to be the children's primary carers. The children, after all, have the right to live and have the chance to prosper. If their biological parents have serious difficulties in preserving that right for their own children, others are entitled to secure that right for those children. Whether the parents object or not.
     
  7. Feb 22, 2009 #6

    LowlyPion

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    I think there is a problem with the word "should".

    Should society pass a law against it? That is a much different issue than if I were impoverished, should I?

    It may well be that the right to have children becomes rationed in the future by scarce resources, but it is a difficult proposition to subscribe to legislative imposition, as opposed to expect that voluntarily choices will achieve the same end. The idea of limiting the most basic drive of life - reproduction - creates difficult to handle corollaries, if the decision is not made solely by the individual, like who decides and on what basis. So far it's been left to Darwin. Choosing Congress to take it on would undoubtedly make a fine mess of things. (Can Birth Credit Swaps be far away if that happens?)
     
  8. Feb 22, 2009 #7

    Astronuc

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    They should not, but if the society supports 'freedom', then society cannot be consistent and infringe upon the freedom.

    Parallel question - "Do people have to right to be irresponsible?". If not, what sanctions should be applied to those who are irresponsible? For example, what sanctions should be applied to a woman or couple who have children but not the means to support those children? - or "What sanctions should be applied to a man who fathers many children with multiple wives, but choses not to support any of them (there was a case locally of a guy who fathered 9 or so children with several women who were on welfare)? - or "What should be the sanctions for people who buy a house or real estate on credit, but then cannot repay the debt or interest according to the schedule?"
     
  9. Feb 22, 2009 #8
    Only thing we can hope for is through our education system people will become acceptably responsible.

    Outliers will always exist, and my personal conclusion is that we can't do anything about them. Rather have some irresponsible people than make (unreasonable) rules, laws, regulations to fix it.
     
  10. Feb 22, 2009 #9

    Lisa!

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    What do you about that 13 year old dad and 15 year old mother?:tongue:
     
  11. Feb 22, 2009 #10

    arildno

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    Well, people have the right to be irresponsible for themselves, but that does not give them the right to act irresponsibly towards others dependent upon them. I.e, it is not against the principle of the freedom of the individual to deprive irresponsible parents of the right to raise their children. (rather, it may be our duty to do so, in the best interest of the child.)
     
  12. Feb 22, 2009 #11

    Astronuc

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    I agree with your statements.
     
  13. Feb 22, 2009 #12

    LowlyPion

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    Throw them in debtors prison and send them to a prison colony like say Australia?
     
  14. Feb 22, 2009 #13
    Good luck on that. I volunteer for an adoption agency and I see the notebooks full of children who need a foster or adoptive home. A poor, semi-hungry, dilapidated home beats the heck out of the foster care system every day of the week.
     
  15. Feb 22, 2009 #14
    the higher people are above the poverty line, the less likely they are to have children. so it's perfectly reasonable to expect that poor people take on the responsibility of having children and wealthy people take on the responsibility of paying for it.
     
  16. Feb 22, 2009 #15
    Can we do the same for congressmen who pass spending bills and then cannot raise taxes to cover that deficit? And why Australia? What's wrong with Mississippi?
     
  17. Feb 22, 2009 #16
    I vote for Greenland.
     
  18. Feb 22, 2009 #17

    Astronuc

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    :rofl: That used to be the solution. :biggrin:

    I'm Australian.
     
  19. Feb 22, 2009 #18

    JasonRox

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    Back in the day, families couldn't survive without having children. Maybe for those who live under the poverty line also can not survive without children.

    Children who can help contribute to the family.
     
  20. Feb 22, 2009 #19

    LowlyPion

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    I think that is more true in agrarian economies, where farm units are self sustaining as far as resources and food production and economies of scale, supported by cheap family labor, contributing to overall well being.

    My family heritage shows quite a number of generations sporting 6 - 8 children through the 19th century. Indeed I rather suspect that it was more than just a lack of condoms or simply the love of children.

    But I think as we enter an age of more precious resources and a higher educational threshold to enter the productive sphere, there is a longer lag from the womb until children can contribute to their collective family's well being - if they ever do before they become overtaken in needing to care for their own.
     
  21. Feb 22, 2009 #20
    It would be cruel and unusual.
     
  22. Feb 22, 2009 #21
    I voted yes. If they have children, then they can feed themselves.
     
  23. Feb 22, 2009 #22

    Office_Shredder

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    I'm not sure if you're suggesting they eat the kids here? The line of logic seems less than ideal
     
  24. Feb 22, 2009 #23
    One more: Should people stop having children in tough times?
    Taking Holocaust as recent event, I wonder if Jews stopped reproducing for those years.
    or
    Would we have been here if our ancestors stop reproducing when they ran out of ways to sustain themselves?

    I was thinking about the third world countries:

    It seems that parents think children (boys) would be able to get a job and sustain the whole family. But this doesn't work all the times and also unlike developed countries poor stay poor (very few opportunities for them to rise).

    Also assume that parents go without having any children. By the time, they reach 50-60, they wouldn't be able to do any work (assuming that they do reach 50-60), would they die out of starvation?
    And, if they get sick during that age who is going to take care of them?
    They definitely need(want) someone to take their care during those times.
     
  25. Feb 22, 2009 #24

    Chi Meson

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    To be clear, my "no" vote means, "If you are living in poverty conditions then you ought to not have children since it would be a bad idea in the current economic situation; and furthermore, did you actually think it through? I mean, were you planning to have a kid, or was it just what happened? Either way, you weren't thinking it through. I don't know if you know what it takes to raise a child, these days, even with two parents together, one working full time and the other staying at home, it is so much work to raise one kid, never mind two or three. Yes, I do know. I am right there. If you think you are going to get through it easily because 'Grandma lives close by' or 'I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get a raise pretty soon' you just don't have your finger on the pulse of reality. It is exhausting, frustrating and terrifying during those first three months. No one can be prepared for it even if they do have plenty of money. But then again, there should be no law against having kids when you can't afford it, nor any other form of stupidity." That's all.

    I just watched three episodes of "House." I might be influenced.
     
  26. Feb 22, 2009 #25
    What about people who are below the poverty line, but can still feed themselves? Or those above the poverty line, but due to poor money management or an addiction can't afford to feed themselves?
     
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