Heavier hydrogen-like bound states?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothetical existence of hydrogen-like bound states involving second and third generation quarks, with muons or tau-leptons replacing electrons. The scope includes theoretical considerations and the feasibility of such states existing or being produced.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes the idea of hydrogen-like states with charm, strange, top, and bottom quarks, suggesting a muon or tau-lepton could act as an electron.
  • Another participant asserts that baryon states with second and third generation quarks decay very quickly, questioning the feasibility of such states.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that while these systems could exist for very short times, their production remains unrealistic, particularly for top quarks which decay too rapidly to form hadrons.
  • One participant argues that the lifetime of certain quark combinations could be long enough to bind a muon, indicating a potential for these states to be considered as atoms under specific conditions.
  • Another response emphasizes the challenges in producing stable matter from these states, particularly due to the short lifetime of the top quark and the complications introduced by using muons or tau-leptons instead of electrons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that while certain quark combinations could theoretically exist for brief periods, there is significant disagreement regarding the practicality of producing stable hydrogen-like states with these quarks and leptons. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the viability of such states.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the lifetimes of quarks and the specific conditions under which these hypothetical states could exist. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical or theoretical implications of these proposed states.

Ian Mitchell
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Before I begin, I would like to say what I am about to ask would require some sort of top-top-bottom bound state for it to function. Which (to my knowledge) has not been experimentally or theoretically predicted. Also, in case if you are wondering- no, this is not a homework question.
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So, if we know that hydrogen exists, could we also hypothetically observe some sort of hydrogen-like state where there would be second generation quarks (charm and strange) or third generation quarks (top and bottom/truth and beauty) bound in a proton like state; with a muon or tau-lepton acting like an electron?*

* Yes, I am aware of positronium bound states and exotic atoms (Introduction to Elementary Particles, Griffiths, page 169).
 
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No. Baryon states involving second and third generation quarks decay very fast.
 
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Well, we couldn’t store it, but for very short times these systems could exist. ccc, ccs and sss can only decay via the weak interaction, that makes their lifetime long enough to bind a muon (or antimuon for sss) via the electromagnetic interaction. css would be neutral.

Top quarks decay too fast to form hadrons, but bbb with an anti-tau might be possible.

There is just no realistic way to produce any of these things.
 
I'm with mfb. I figured the question of whether or not you have an atom is how many orbits you have before decay, and it seems to be nearly a billion. So I would call it an atom.
 
It sounds to me that the OP wants to create large quantities and/or stable matter. My response should be read in that light.

Furthermore, the ttb state mentioned in the OP does not exist in a meaningful way due to the top lifetime.

Also taking into account to that that the OP wanted the state to include a mu or tau instead of an electron and you have serious production issues even if such a state could theoretically exist.
 

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