Help interpret quantum states of molecular rotation and torsion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of quantum states related to molecular rotation and torsion, particularly in the context of how microwave photons interact with these states. Participants explore the implications of quantum energy for light and its relationship to molecular behavior, aiming to clarify the underlying concepts for a layperson audience.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants explain that molecules have a complex spectrum of states, with certain states associated with classical normal modes, such as bending oscillations.
  • It is noted that molecules exist in particular states or combinations of states, and to transition to a higher energy state, they must acquire energy from an external source.
  • Participants discuss that the energy of microwave photons is close to the energy differences between certain molecular states, allowing these photons to be absorbed and elevate the molecules to higher energy states associated with faster oscillation modes.
  • One participant emphasizes the proportional relationship between a photon's energy and its frequency, suggesting a foundational concept in understanding quantum energy.
  • Another participant introduces the idea of quantized states in atoms, suggesting that similar principles apply to molecules, encompassing not only electron-nucleus interactions but also the motions of nuclei, including rotation and torsion.
  • There is a mention of different energy scales for various types of molecular motion, with microwave photons corresponding to rotational and torsional states.
  • A participant highlights the relevance of physical chemistry for deeper exploration of these concepts, indicating that a background in chemistry and math could facilitate understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the complexity of molecular states and the role of microwave photons in energy transitions. However, there is no consensus on the layperson-level interpretation of these concepts, as the discussion includes varying levels of detail and complexity.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the need for clearer definitions of terms like "quantum energy," "torsion," and "normal modes," as well as the dependence on prior knowledge of quantum mechanics and physical chemistry for full comprehension.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in the intersection of quantum mechanics and molecular chemistry, particularly those seeking to understand the effects of light on molecular states.

syfry
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TL;DR
Could use help understanding how to interpret a description about quantum energy of microwaves that relate to quantum states of molecules.
Was exploring how light interacts with matter out of layperson curiosity, when a sentence suddenly tripped me up:

"The quantum energy of microwave photons is in the range of 0.00001 to 0.001 eV, which is in the range of energies that separate the quantum states of molecular rotation and torsion"

That's the first time I've heard of a 'quantum energy' for light. (photons)

Also first time hearing about rotation and twisting of molecules. (had to search the meaning of torsion too)

Main issue is understanding what's affecting what in the description, and, how:

What does it mean for the twisting and turning action of molecules to be quantum states?

Are the microwaves causing that? Or is their energy separating the states? Are the states together until then?

The sentence is so brief without any clarifying description that it's unclear, and a search didn't help.

The quoted sentence is from the link below:

https://www.advancingphysics.org/how-do-light-waves-interact-with-matter

Please help me to properly interpret what that sentence is getting at (at a layperson level).
 
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First, molecules have a fairly complicated spectrum of states. Certain subsets of these states can be associated heuristically with what you might call normal modes (e.g., bending oscillations) in a classical multi-particle systems.

Second, molecules will be a in particular state or combination of states from their spectrum. For the molecule to move to a state of higher energy it needs to acquire that energy from somewhere.

Third, the cited article recognizes that the photon (light particle) energy for wavelengths corresponding to microwaves is close to the difference in energy between some of the states in the spectrum of molecules. So these microwave photons can be absorbed by the molecules to put them in a higher energy state. You can think of that higher energy states as being associated with modes of faster oscillation.
 
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syfry said:
That's the first time I've heard of a 'quantum energy' for light. (photons)
The energy of a photon is proportional to its frequency. See: Photon energy
 
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It is easiest to start with atoms, in particular the hydrogen atom, see
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Bohr.html#c4
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hyde.html#c2

Once you understand this idea that the state of an atom (the relative motion of the electron and the nucleus) is quantized, i.e., only certain states of discrete energy are possible, it shouldn't be too hard to get that the same will apply to the state of a molecule, but not only for the relative motion of electrons and nuclei, but also for the relative motion of the nuclei themselves.

It turns out that the different motions are characterized by very different energy scales. In terms of the wavelength/frequency/energy of the photons implied, the highest energy states are those correspond to electronic motion (ultraviolet and visible photons), then it is the relative distance between the nuclei, known as vibrations (infrared photons), then relative position of the nuclei (torsion) and rotation of entire frame of the molecule, which as the text you cited mentioned, implied microwave photons.
 
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@DrClaude makes an important point about the types of motions associated with different energy scales. @syfry I know you asked for a layman level, but if you wanted to dig into this more, these kinds of things are really the meat of a subject called physical chemistry. If you've taken undergraduate level intro chemistry and have a decent handle on math, you could dig deeper, if you're interested. (And even if you don't have that background you could do it, but it would be a longer slog)
 
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